My Immune System Has Narcolepsy: Black Mold, Swiss Cheese Brain & Becoming Your Own Doctor with Dr. Jeff Bone S3-EP2

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You know the whole middle part of the grocery store?

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Yeah, just don't go there.

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We've talked about that several times on this program.

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We just shop the periphery of the store.

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The vegetables, the meat, and that's pretty much it.

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All the junk in the boxes, forget it.

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And if you can find a farm stand instead of a store, do that.

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all right everybody welcome back to another episode of the space tomatoes podcast i'm one

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of your hosts havoc my lex hello is that other guy the other guy today today we have we have with

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us a very special guest, Dr. Jeffrey Bone, who is a chronic illness mentor and coach,

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as well as a psychologist practicing, I believe. Yes.

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No, just doing the coaching as I am using my podcast as a way to spread the word across the

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land. And by all means, just call me Jeff. All right, Jeff, it is. I like that.

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Thanks for coming on, Jeff.

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Appreciate it.

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Well, thanks for having me.

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Thanks for hosting me.

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Absolutely.

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LX had pointed out at one point that you kind of maybe missed the perfect calling.

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You could have become an orthopedic surgeon.

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Orthopedic surgeon, urologist, you never know.

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Urologist.

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I wasn't going to take it there, but I grew up with it.

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So I guess let's just get right into it.

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So you were practicing psychology at one point and an issue presented itself that landed you with your own chronic illness of sorts.

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What actually happened and what was that process like?

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And what did it feel like to go from the person treating people to the person being hopefully treated?

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Well, about a decade ago, I was in my own office.

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I was the only one in there.

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I had a waiting room, I had two offices, a little restroom.

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And the problem was that after about three years or so, I had this horrible sinusitis,

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just this headache that just would not go away.

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And so I went to the ENT, you know, just the ear, nose, throat, and, you know, showed some

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sinus issues, was given some prednisone.

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And after I took the prednisone, my body flipped out.

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It felt like I was walking on vibrating sand.

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My bladder hurt.

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It was holiday time.

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So all the Christmas lights, they were just distracting and they were nauseating me.

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Couldn't watch anything on television because just the motion on the screen was overwhelming.

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My memory, I couldn't remember my kids' names, my animals' names.

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It was just horrific.

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So I go to all the doctors, the neurologists.

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I go to multiple ENTs, internists, you name it.

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And it's either like, oh, just wait a little bit.

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Everything's going to be fine.

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Or it's just anxiety.

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And it's just not resolving, not resolving.

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I continue to look.

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I continue to seek.

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And then eventually I go to one doctor, a functional med doctor, does some blood work and says, I think you may have a mold problem.

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And so a higher environmentalist checks out the house, checks out the office.

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Turns out there's two neurotoxic species of mold in that HVAC.

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And it was stachybotrys, which is the most famous black mold, another one I can't remember off the top of my head.

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And that had kind of spiraled me into the world of chronic inflammatory response syndrome.

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And you would think the fun would stop right there, but the fun continues.

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So after spending a lot of money and doing everything in that world, I'm better.

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I do strange things like ozone therapy, do lots of binders, do these different things to kind of like help clear myself with the mycotoxins.

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And I do get better.

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And we're moving in the right direction, but I have no good days.

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And I was going to go to the Mayo Clinic, which is kind of like the car wash of doctors.

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You get, you know, spun around by all these different doctors.

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But I have some decent health systems near me.

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So I'm like, why don't I just look at the hospital directory?

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Because I've been to lots of doctors at this point.

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And I'm just like, maybe there's something that I haven't tried yet.

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So I go through and I see one that just says toxicology.

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And I'm just like, hey, I don't know what toxicology does, but I'm feeling toxic.

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So I'm going to go there.

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And he doesn't believe in the mold stuff.

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He's just kind of pooh-poohs that idea.

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I don't have a problem with that.

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But he's listening to me.

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and he takes me seriously and he can see that I still have a little slight tremor.

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It gives me a piece of paper.

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I hold it out there and he can see the tremor that I have.

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So he's kind of curious.

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And one of the things that he looks for, thankfully, is my immunogoblins, part of the immune system.

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Well, my immunogoblins are clinically low.

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So I get sent to the immunologist and the immunologist gives me a vaccine.

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A month later, I come back and get the blood work done.

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My body does not make antibodies to the vaccine.

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And so what do I have?

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I have common variable immune deficiency at that point, primary immune disorder.

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And although it's a rare disease, it has common in the name because it's the most common primary immune deficiency disorder.

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And so then I have to take immunoglobulins.

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I have to infuse them in once a week for the rest of my life.

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so is that an autoimmune disease that you had underlying that was triggered by the mold or

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it was probably yes they call it epigenetics so it's probably the due to the environmental stressor

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i have the expression of then the common variable immune disorder and it's a primary immune disorder

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so basically my immune system is has like narcolepsy it won't get out of bed autoimmune

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disorders, that's where the immune system is overactive and will destroy healthy tissue,

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get arthritis. It's like your joints are perfectly fine. And then it's like, nah,

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the joints are the bad guys. We got to get them. That's the autoimmune disorder. I've got the

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complete opposite, the primary immune thing. Okay. Wow. And then to say, you know, what's that like?

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It's very humbling because my life has always been about other people's stories. It's just the

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story of the other person and how can I kind of tailor that, help that insight, whatever it is,

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to be able to assist with them. And now I'm being told, oh, you have anxiety. Now, mind you,

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I've always had anxiety. I've always been an anxious kid my entire life. Just anxiety is

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nothing new. Now, I know systemically that's not why my bladder hurts. You know, that's not why my

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body's in, in absolute chaos. And so when I get into the patient role, it's very, it's very,

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very scary. Because at first, I'm like, Oh, just go see the doctor, the doctor will know how to fix

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me. And it's like, well, that one didn't. And that one didn't. And that one, and wait a second,

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I'm starting to get a pattern here, that I'm not fitting into that decision tree into the box of

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how they see people. And I'm getting kind of dismissed. And I'm just taking every single

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supplement because I'm feeling very overwhelmed. My brain is literally inflamed and I'm having

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major problems. It just so happens I had a SPECT scan. I don't know if you know who Dr. Daniel

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Amon is, but he's famous for doing these brain imaging SPECT scans. And I had one in the early

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2000s, which is before the mold. And I had one in 2022. And it clearly showed a huge difference

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in terms of my brain functioning. So you could see the impact of it neurologically. So with this

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impaired, broken brain, I'm Googling. We don't have AI at that point. So it's kind of like,

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I'm just good old fashioned Google. And I'm Googling things. I'm trying every single supplement

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that I can find. Maybe it's this one. Maybe it's that one. I need some NAC or I need some

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black oil, seed, seed oil, whatever it is. I'm trying everything and nothing is kind of moving

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the needle. And all of it is this hope. I'm just hoping to the next one, to the next one.

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Because I go to the doctor and it's one of those things that only the real kind of chronically ill

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will kind of recognize one things I never knew. It's like you, a new doctor is like Christmas.

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I mean, you were just so excited to see the specialist. And then you get the usual, like,

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I've got no idea what's going on. And you go back to the car, but it's so demoralizing.

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And your compass is spinning because you just don't, because you had just been looking forward

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to that, you know, event for so long.

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And then it's like Christmas day and like, yeah, you know, no presents for you.

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And then the demoralization that hits and then you're just kind of existentially kind

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of spinning.

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And it's like, what am I going to do?

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How am I going to fix this?

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Who's going to help me?

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I can't be the only one that's experiencing this.

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There's nothing new under the sun.

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Why can't they see me?

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Why can't they see what's wrong with me?

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I think a lot of people experience that. I mean, they go to the doctor looking for answers. And I think a lot of the time the doctors kind of, they don't want to listen to you as much because I don't know. And you're not like a random person off the street. You're a physician and you're going in there and they're kind of telling you. And I know I've been told like either they don't say it outright, but they kind of act like you're making stuff up or that you're, you don't actually have those symptoms and you really don't know what you're talking about.

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and they still don't have the answers either.

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So it makes it hard for people that are seeking answers.

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Absolutely.

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And because they won't use the phrase, I don't know.

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And it's just going to, it's so hard

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because so many of our symptoms are subjective in nature.

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And it's kind of like, and they rely heavily on just like,

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what's the imaging or the blood work may say,

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but they refuse to say, I don't know.

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That's why they'll throw it in the,

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oh, you're exaggerating.

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Oh, it's a psychosomatic issue

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rather than just like, you know what? Honestly, I don't know. Maybe here, let me refer you to this

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other person or whomever it may be. But they use way too much of something called the swag technique,

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which is a scientific wild ass guess. And so. Well, it's, it's actually, it's actually taught

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in medical school, right? I mean, there's, there's actually kind of a, a, a built in decision. It's

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not a decision tree so much, but it is, but it's kind of a, a, a refined mechanism that says that

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if this do this 90 plus percent of the time that resolves it, they don't get any training.

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Not all of them. Some of them do, but they're highly specialized in that remaining five to 10%.

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And that's where the issue comes, right? And, you know, in talking with people and also having gone through things myself, I find one of the most frustrating things is the need to have intense levels of self-advocacy in that process.

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Yes, absolutely. That's essential. And I know doctors hate when you come in with the chat results and this, this and that, but it's the idea. And I always tell people that I'm talking to, it's like, you're the expert of you. I'm not the expert of you. You are the expert of you. And I have my own little area of expertise and we're going to put those together.

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and so many doctors refuse to work as a team with the patient

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because maybe it's just like they only have so much time

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and they're just kind of moving through.

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And like you said, they'll be right most of the time,

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but they are stubborn about that 10%

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and they'll put it into the psychosomatic area.

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And I always say it psychosomatic until we understand the pathways And then all of a sudden okay I guess well that not psychosomatic Oh I guess that not psychosomatic And it just more and more of that

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Now, the psychology matters,

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but it matters in degrees of suffering

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and how we experience some of the symptoms,

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not the underlining disease.

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Okay, so it helps the symptoms sometimes

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and symptom management, how we experience it,

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but not the underlying disease.

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It's kind of like placebo.

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you can have a placebo

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and it's like oh this is going to take away blah blah blah

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and it will some of the time

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but it doesn't do anything for the

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underlying disease just the perception

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of it temporarily so

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yeah

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I think the other battle that we have to

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contend with is what the insurance is going to

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pay for or not

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yeah and they want anything that's even

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like touching the idea of like wellness

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or it gets into this

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complicated kind of space

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And I remember way back when reading about, so there's something called ACOM. It gets used in work comp all the time, but it's the American Academy of Occupation and Environmental Medicine. And they realized ahead of the game that mold was an issue.

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and they have the attorneys write up the sections associated with black mold that would protect

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basically the insurance companies the doctors and everyone kind of like in that game so but the thing

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is it's like if you ask farmers about it and they talk about farmers and mold in uh in the feed that

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they're giving their animals they are all on top that's where the research is because the health of

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those animals in terms of how big and strong and healthy they are it's kind of like it's all the

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information is right there so it's kind of strange but they got ahead of the game so mold would not

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be taken so seriously of course of course they did same with like lime and things like that and

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just environmental medicine kind of in general. They want to dismiss that.

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And mold's a huge one, right? We, I live on a small farm. So, you know, if we get a feed sack

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that has mold in it, the whole thing is, is gone. It's no longer any good. And if you feed mold to

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animals, it will, it will alter their health in a very detrimental manner very quickly too. It's,

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it's not a slow moving thing. It's, it's pretty quick.

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It's almost like we're mammals.

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I know how weird, right?

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It's very, very, very strange. I mean,

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we have fancy thoughts and we wear clothes and we have this, this and that,

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but we're mammals. And, and,

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and what's confusing is that not everyone reacts to mold the exact same way.

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It's like some people are lactose intolerant.

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Some people can take the lactose.

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sometimes people can clear mycotoxins easily and some people cannot clear it. So there's variability

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to it, which then kind of reminds me of the David Foster Wallace quote, how can I have all of this

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inside of me, but to you, it's just words. So the person's suffering and it's like they have a

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tempest, they have a storm within them, but it's just words that come out because pain's unshareable.

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I can't give you the burning in my right foot.

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No one can feel that.

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I can give you a metaphor.

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It feels like it's by a campfire, but I can't give you that pain.

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And then I'm in a position where I just have to hope that you believe me because that's all that can be there.

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It's like you either believe me or you don't, but can't really test it.

214
00:16:46,348 --> 00:16:47,448
I've had the nerve testing.

215
00:16:47,568 --> 00:16:48,488
I've had the MRI.

216
00:16:48,748 --> 00:16:49,808
I've had the blood work.

217
00:16:49,888 --> 00:16:50,788
I've had all this stuff.

218
00:16:51,308 --> 00:16:53,588
It's just kind of like it is what it is.

219
00:16:53,588 --> 00:16:59,308
you believe me or you don't. And sometimes we get into those doctors where they just don't.

220
00:16:59,588 --> 00:17:07,228
And for whatever reason, maybe wrong time of day, or they just don't believe in that or whatever it

221
00:17:07,228 --> 00:17:16,168
may be. Well, there's, there's a huge push to, to in the medical field, right. And, and insurance

222
00:17:16,168 --> 00:17:21,548
as well. And you mentioned this, right. They don't cover things like supplements. Doctors will rarely,

223
00:17:21,548 --> 00:17:27,568
rarely look at even the most simple things for problematic areas, unless it's, you know,

224
00:17:27,728 --> 00:17:34,288
absolutely tried and true tied to this, right? But diet, right? Supplementation, exercise,

225
00:17:34,608 --> 00:17:39,848
things of this nature, you go to a doctor and you're going to get a prescription and it's great,

226
00:17:39,848 --> 00:17:46,948
but, you know, is it something, well, this will clear it up. What's the foundational problem here?

227
00:17:47,028 --> 00:17:50,508
And they're like, ah, next, we got to get the train rolling, you know?

228
00:17:50,508 --> 00:17:54,528
Yeah. When I went to the urologist, they're like, here's some Flomax.

229
00:17:54,788 --> 00:17:56,308
You know, it's kind of like it's a take.

230
00:17:56,628 --> 00:17:59,268
Again, it's like he had no idea.

231
00:17:59,388 --> 00:18:01,188
He's like, try this Tic Tac.

232
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And it's kind of like, you know, didn't make a difference.

233
00:18:04,968 --> 00:18:06,788
But I have a great example of it, too.

234
00:18:06,848 --> 00:18:09,808
I had this horrible insomnia during this time.

235
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I mean, zero sleep, zero sleep.

236
00:18:12,508 --> 00:18:17,328
There were times where I was given heavy duty medication and I still wouldn't sleep.

237
00:18:17,728 --> 00:18:18,888
It was that bad.

238
00:18:18,888 --> 00:18:41,148
I had a home sleep study. I had a sleep study in a lab, you know, it's like, and again, they paid for all of that kind of stuff and they paid for the, my medication. But it wasn't until I went to the functional medicine doctor and he had me test my cortisol throughout the day spitting into a tube. And then that showed my cortisol levels were just off the charts.

239
00:18:41,148 --> 00:18:47,228
just so happens they have they have medication that will raise your cortisol they don't have

240
00:18:47,228 --> 00:18:53,648
medication that will diminish your cortisol but there are supplements that do there are adaptogens

241
00:18:53,648 --> 00:19:02,008
that do decrease cortisol and so it's kind of like i'm talking to the head of sleep you know

242
00:19:02,008 --> 00:19:09,268
medicine for the larger large you know hoag hospital you know a very well respected health

243
00:19:09,268 --> 00:19:16,068
system here and they're throwing their sleep studies and medications and the sleep studies

244
00:19:16,068 --> 00:19:22,028
is just kind of like selling CPAPs, you know, it's kind of like, and, and not that people don't need

245
00:19:22,028 --> 00:19:30,328
it. It's kind of like, but it doesn't help a lot of people. Let's say that, but they don't start

246
00:19:30,328 --> 00:19:36,108
off with the basics of like, let's test your cortisol and let's test it kind of throughout

247
00:19:36,108 --> 00:19:42,368
the day and let's look at other ways to kind of bring that down and it's like it's frustrating

248
00:19:42,368 --> 00:19:49,028
they bring you into a a sterile hospital room with a hospital bed hook a bunch of wires up to

249
00:19:49,028 --> 00:19:53,888
you and then tell you get a good night's rest and you're like i don't think i've ever been this

250
00:19:53,888 --> 00:19:59,208
uncomfortable i think they do a lot from home now though a lot of i did both i did both and it was

251
00:19:59,208 --> 00:20:05,448
easy i did one from home and then i did one in the lab and they both showed you know the same

252
00:20:05,448 --> 00:20:11,348
thing. I didn't have sleep apnea, but, uh, they were both very billable for the individuals

253
00:20:11,348 --> 00:20:18,028
prescribing it. Right. Yeah. And, and, um, you got to, you got to experience what I call the gray

254
00:20:18,028 --> 00:20:26,348
man. Uh, I, I have suffered throughout periods of my life with insomnia, not, not quite zero sleep,

255
00:20:26,468 --> 00:20:34,848
but two, maybe three hours a night max. Uh, and I, I always describe it as, you know, like my wife

256
00:20:34,848 --> 00:20:38,928
would ask me like, are you okay? Are you, you know, what's going on? And I said, it's just gray.

257
00:20:39,348 --> 00:20:45,788
Everything's gray. Yes. I mean, all the time, like my feelings are gray. My vision is gray.

258
00:20:46,288 --> 00:20:52,828
My interaction is gray. And what do I mean by that? It's drab. It's just bland and it's,

259
00:20:52,828 --> 00:20:57,228
and it's in the background somewhere kind of fuzzy is what it felt like to me.

260
00:20:57,428 --> 00:21:02,028
Do you get irritable too? Cause I can only imagine I would be slightly cranky if I only got,

261
00:21:02,028 --> 00:21:25,748
I was grumpy before. And so, yeah, I was irritable. I was grumpy. And actually, probably what saved other people was that I was so fatigued. I was absolutely just, I was to the point, it wasn't just the sleep, but it was just the chaos of my immune system that just wasn't working.

262
00:21:25,748 --> 00:21:32,368
and if someone told me I needed to drive 30 minutes and hit a button to save the world,

263
00:21:33,028 --> 00:21:38,488
we'd all be dead. I mean, I just couldn't, I couldn't imagine someone say, oh, go to the

264
00:21:38,488 --> 00:21:42,888
grocery store and go get the eggs, go get the butter. It's like, it's in the back. It's like,

265
00:21:42,988 --> 00:21:49,728
I can't do that. I just, I, and people don't really understand. I have, I've had severe

266
00:21:49,728 --> 00:21:55,388
chronic pain and I've had severe fatigue, I would rather have severe, uh, pain than fatigue.

267
00:21:55,788 --> 00:22:04,708
Uh, it sounds, it may sound, you know, controversial, but like I can do things in pain. I can't do

268
00:22:04,708 --> 00:22:07,448
anything when I'm, when I have severe, severe fatigue.

269
00:22:08,368 --> 00:22:13,808
Yeah. You can, you can push through pain. You can, you know, at some point it becomes

270
00:22:13,808 --> 00:22:21,888
background. It's, you know, yeah, I have, I have back pain, right. And it's always there.

271
00:22:22,008 --> 00:22:29,648
It's just always there, but I just do what I have to do and it is what it is. But yeah,

272
00:22:29,648 --> 00:22:36,308
when you get fatigued, it's kind of like, I can't lift my legs. Like I physically can't walk. Like

273
00:22:36,308 --> 00:22:41,988
I just walked to the front door and I feel like I've just ran 10 miles or something, you know?

274
00:22:41,988 --> 00:22:42,828
Absolutely.

275
00:22:42,828 --> 00:22:47,668
Yeah. Without the adrenaline rush and the beneficial portions.

276
00:22:48,488 --> 00:22:48,628
Yes.

277
00:22:48,988 --> 00:22:54,688
What supplements have you found that, you know, natural type supplements have you found that have helped?

278
00:22:54,808 --> 00:22:56,728
And you had said black seed oil.

279
00:22:56,848 --> 00:22:57,628
And it's funny.

280
00:22:58,068 --> 00:22:59,948
I think it's a religious text.

281
00:23:00,028 --> 00:23:04,828
I know it's a religious text and I think it's often misquoted to the Quran.

282
00:23:05,348 --> 00:23:08,068
And I think it's another one of theirs called the Hadid.

283
00:23:08,068 --> 00:23:11,368
If I'm wrong, comment, let us know.

284
00:23:11,368 --> 00:23:27,708
I'm wrong. I'm happy to admit it. But I think in there, there's a piece that says that black seed oil is something to the effect of it. It's so potent a healer that the only thing it won't cure is death.

285
00:23:27,708 --> 00:23:56,028
Wow. Well, that's impressive. And so, unfortunately, it didn't heal me. And the things that ultimately made a difference were the adaptogens. Now, I started off with ashwagandha. I started off with, I think it was KSM-66, if I'm correct. But then there was another one that worked a little bit better for me. I think it was called like Samunil or something of that nature.

286
00:23:56,028 --> 00:23:59,708
and now it's like, okay, I'm sleeping better.

287
00:24:00,428 --> 00:24:03,608
But it took me a while to figure it out.

288
00:24:03,968 --> 00:24:05,528
It was giving me anhedonia.

289
00:24:05,928 --> 00:24:08,528
It was flattening me out too much.

290
00:24:09,028 --> 00:24:12,148
And I just really, really kind of didn't care.

291
00:24:12,628 --> 00:24:14,928
And I believe it was phosphatidylserine,

292
00:24:15,208 --> 00:24:19,548
which was better for me in terms of bringing down the cortisol,

293
00:24:20,188 --> 00:24:24,288
but without the same mood flattening that the ashwagandha was causing.

294
00:24:24,288 --> 00:24:30,048
and I'm out of my league here talking about the supplements in terms of,

295
00:24:30,048 --> 00:24:30,648
that's okay.

296
00:24:31,268 --> 00:24:31,328
And,

297
00:24:31,408 --> 00:24:32,548
but it was,

298
00:24:32,668 --> 00:24:33,028
you know,

299
00:24:33,068 --> 00:24:33,168
I,

300
00:24:33,608 --> 00:24:33,848
you know,

301
00:24:33,908 --> 00:24:34,688
it was always,

302
00:24:34,828 --> 00:24:35,148
you know,

303
00:24:35,148 --> 00:24:38,308
when you go to see the functional medicine doctors,

304
00:24:38,368 --> 00:24:39,468
you always find the,

305
00:24:39,468 --> 00:24:41,608
the liposomal version of it,

306
00:24:41,668 --> 00:24:42,048
you know,

307
00:24:42,048 --> 00:24:44,168
it's kind of like the Cadillac version of it.

308
00:24:44,608 --> 00:24:46,388
And so it's kind of like,

309
00:24:46,748 --> 00:24:50,348
but none of those kind of particularly kind of saved the day.

310
00:24:50,468 --> 00:24:53,748
I tried a lot of them and it's kind of like,

311
00:24:53,748 --> 00:24:59,548
And you have these different boutiques and you're spending a few hundred dollars, you know, a month on it.

312
00:24:59,548 --> 00:25:03,308
And it's just like, and it just wasn't saving the day.

313
00:25:04,148 --> 00:25:18,648
And, but I did find, you know, some, you know, in, in, in, when things became a little bit more stable, that taurine and glycine, some of the amino acids were very beneficial for sleep as well as magnesium.

314
00:25:19,848 --> 00:25:21,028
Magnesium's huge.

315
00:25:21,148 --> 00:25:21,508
Yes.

316
00:25:21,508 --> 00:25:32,408
And so I found some of those basic ones to be beneficial for, for the world of sleep, as long as you're not in complete free fall with your immune system.

317
00:25:33,508 --> 00:25:38,868
Have you, have you tried fighting fungus with fungus at all?

318
00:25:38,868 --> 00:25:48,288
Yes, into the world of like Paul Stamets and, and, and, uh, myco defense.

319
00:25:48,288 --> 00:25:53,028
And, uh, there's a, there's a few different, um, mushrooms, uh, kind of

320
00:25:53,028 --> 00:26:08,416
complexes uh the lion mane um and so uh and so I I have tried but see some of it my memory is not fantastic because it turned my brain into Swiss cheese

321
00:26:08,576 --> 00:26:11,316
So some of the timeline got spliced up a little bit.

322
00:26:11,736 --> 00:26:15,576
But I believe I was trying a lot of those things as well as some of the peptides.

323
00:26:15,756 --> 00:26:18,256
I was taking peptides a decade ago.

324
00:26:19,756 --> 00:26:23,416
Some of the biohacking, early biohacking people.

325
00:26:23,416 --> 00:26:37,076
And 2016 is not really biohacking, but it wasn't where it is kind of quite now in terms of it because it was mainstream enough for Dave Asprey to be talking about it.

326
00:26:37,236 --> 00:26:39,796
And, you know, then you're pretty kind of mainstream.

327
00:26:40,636 --> 00:26:42,536
But I was trying all of that.

328
00:26:42,596 --> 00:26:45,876
I was injecting all of it and it just wasn't making a huge difference.

329
00:26:46,176 --> 00:26:51,456
It wasn't until I really stabilized with the immunoglobulins.

330
00:26:51,456 --> 00:26:58,616
besides the physical toll all this stuff takes on you there's also an emotional or psychological

331
00:26:58,616 --> 00:27:03,136
toll it takes on you too especially when you're going to doctors and they essentially tell you

332
00:27:03,136 --> 00:27:06,376
there's nothing wrong with you or they don't know what's wrong with you that i mean and then you just

333
00:27:06,376 --> 00:27:12,196
start thinking i'm never gonna figure this stuff yeah you start feeling hopeless and helpless uh

334
00:27:12,196 --> 00:27:17,076
hopeless is that things aren't going to get better and helpless is that there's nothing that i can do

335
00:27:17,076 --> 00:27:18,896
to get things better.

336
00:27:19,416 --> 00:27:21,636
And that's where right next to me,

337
00:27:21,736 --> 00:27:23,636
I have a little ultrasound wand.

338
00:27:23,736 --> 00:27:25,176
I use ultrasound on myself.

339
00:27:25,556 --> 00:27:27,736
I use a red light panel.

340
00:27:28,696 --> 00:27:32,256
One of the things that I found to be incredibly effective

341
00:27:32,256 --> 00:27:35,316
because my brain was shot to all heck

342
00:27:35,316 --> 00:27:39,396
and I used a bi-light

343
00:27:39,396 --> 00:27:42,596
where you put the red light up your nose.

344
00:27:43,376 --> 00:27:45,336
And it's not the sexiest look,

345
00:27:45,336 --> 00:27:50,396
Not that I ever bring the sexiest look, but it was helpful.

346
00:27:50,976 --> 00:27:52,796
And I'm just like, this is expensive.

347
00:27:53,336 --> 00:27:56,816
And it's like, I think it was like $300 at the time.

348
00:27:57,296 --> 00:28:06,516
And I was absolutely blown away of just how beneficial it was when I was in a very, very compromised state.

349
00:28:07,416 --> 00:28:07,596
All right.

350
00:28:08,056 --> 00:28:14,256
I have psoriasis and with the psoriatic arthritis component, I feel fatigued a lot.

351
00:28:14,256 --> 00:28:18,896
And I've been to the doctor and they say, oh, the fatigue is not part of that at all.

352
00:28:18,996 --> 00:28:20,696
And, you know, it has nothing to do with it.

353
00:28:20,756 --> 00:28:23,116
And you're just, you know, I don't know, being lazy or whatever.

354
00:28:23,236 --> 00:28:24,256
You just got to get out and do that.

355
00:28:24,476 --> 00:28:25,776
That's really not how things work.

356
00:28:25,856 --> 00:28:32,136
But anyway, long story short, I did buy a red blue panel probably six or eight months ago.

357
00:28:32,276 --> 00:28:33,896
And I think it works pretty good.

358
00:28:34,116 --> 00:28:37,276
It helps with the flare ups on my arms and stuff.

359
00:28:37,316 --> 00:28:40,096
But you've had pretty good results with the red light therapy.

360
00:28:40,096 --> 00:28:48,356
I use a red light panel now and I use it on my foot and it's kind of the nerve pain that I have in my foot.

361
00:28:48,576 --> 00:28:50,136
And it is it is helpful.

362
00:28:50,716 --> 00:28:54,096
And it's it's odd that they don't talk about it as much.

363
00:28:54,516 --> 00:28:55,036
Right.

364
00:28:55,236 --> 00:28:56,976
But it is helpful.

365
00:28:56,976 --> 00:28:58,836
And I use an ultrasound.

366
00:28:59,056 --> 00:29:04,096
It's like one hundred and fifty dollar ultrasound wand that I use on the bursa.

367
00:29:04,516 --> 00:29:07,736
That's likely causing the nerve pain in my right.

368
00:29:07,736 --> 00:29:09,936
But I also use it on my head.

369
00:29:10,096 --> 00:29:12,336
And it makes a difference.

370
00:29:12,436 --> 00:29:13,356
It actually helps.

371
00:29:14,556 --> 00:29:22,576
You know, there we actually help the people and to give them tools, you know, to be able to help themselves instead.

372
00:29:22,916 --> 00:29:24,956
And again, I'm not anti-medication.

373
00:29:25,176 --> 00:29:26,536
I'm not anti-anything.

374
00:29:26,756 --> 00:29:28,156
I'm pro-everything.

375
00:29:28,276 --> 00:29:29,676
Put everything on the menu.

376
00:29:30,096 --> 00:29:31,436
Show me everything that I can.

377
00:29:31,816 --> 00:29:33,656
And it's kind of like, what's everything?

378
00:29:33,856 --> 00:29:37,096
And then, you know, that's where the doctors are like, oh, don't look up chat.

379
00:29:37,196 --> 00:29:38,656
And it's like, but chat will give me everything.

380
00:29:38,656 --> 00:29:43,856
chat will show me the menu. You won't show me the menu. And it's kind of like, what am I supposed

381
00:29:43,856 --> 00:29:52,276
to do? And so I want to see the menu. Uh, uh, and, uh, yeah, I want to see all my options.

382
00:29:53,216 --> 00:30:01,976
I really am a huge advocate of, um, so I'm not, I'm not necessarily anti-Western medicine,

383
00:30:01,976 --> 00:30:08,796
right i i believe that it has a form and it has a function um i tend to say things like

384
00:30:08,796 --> 00:30:14,836
if if a long hard thing is in more pieces than you started with good time to be at a doctor

385
00:30:14,836 --> 00:30:21,976
yes if you're if you're leaking also a good time to be at the doctor um you know so when in other

386
00:30:21,976 --> 00:30:30,316
words i i tend to to uh keep that at a minimum for me i am not going to tell anyone else what

387
00:30:30,316 --> 00:30:36,316
to do. You do you and be happy with, with your results. Um, but you're like every other guy you

388
00:30:36,316 --> 00:30:42,736
go, if you're dying. Well, maybe if, if I'm dying bad enough, if I'm not dying that bad,

389
00:30:42,796 --> 00:30:48,436
it'd probably be the quality of the death, you know, it's seven minutes of DMT, you know,

390
00:30:48,436 --> 00:30:55,536
don't undersell it. But, uh, but the thing that I've always had like a biggest problem with is,

391
00:30:55,536 --> 00:31:04,336
is doctors won't even consider naturopath, you know, homeopath type remedies, even though they

392
00:31:04,336 --> 00:31:11,376
know there is science to back up the fact that it does work. I was actually quite shocked. I broke

393
00:31:11,376 --> 00:31:17,216
my collarbone, right. And like piece of it sticking up and all that good stuff. So they had to go in

394
00:31:17,216 --> 00:31:22,836
and put it back together and put a plate and some screws. But, uh, you know, I had told the doctor,

395
00:31:22,836 --> 00:31:24,436
He asked if I was on any medication.

396
00:31:24,596 --> 00:31:27,556
I said, no, but I take an herbal tea and I described it to him.

397
00:31:28,116 --> 00:31:31,916
And after all this, he gave me this, you know, bunch of medication to take.

398
00:31:32,136 --> 00:31:38,296
And, uh, there, there was nothing in there for like a, uh, anti-inflammatory or, or anything

399
00:31:38,296 --> 00:31:38,936
like that.

400
00:31:39,036 --> 00:31:41,776
And I was like, you know, is, isn't that important?

401
00:31:41,856 --> 00:31:46,436
He goes, there is nothing I can give you that's as powerful as a tea you're already drinking.

402
00:31:46,776 --> 00:31:50,116
And I was like blown away by that.

403
00:31:50,116 --> 00:32:07,116
And, and for me, I would love to find an advocacy group that I could get behind that actually is trying to change the medical world to incorporate that back in. Like, I'm not saying don't use medication where, where it's, you know, relevant, important, necessary, et cetera.

404
00:32:07,116 --> 00:32:12,996
but I am saying that if you have the option to tell someone, Hey, if you, if you take turmeric,

405
00:32:12,996 --> 00:32:19,176
it's going to help, you know, with inflammation, uh, if you, you know, et cetera. Right. And there

406
00:32:19,176 --> 00:32:25,296
are a lot of natural remedies out there that really help. Like for me, I'm under the weather

407
00:32:25,296 --> 00:32:31,256
right now. And I will tell you right now, I found this, you know, uh, a local farm stand to us. A

408
00:32:31,256 --> 00:32:37,716
lady does a bunch of tinctures and stuff like that. And, uh, you know, the first time I found

409
00:32:37,716 --> 00:32:42,036
it, I was actually taking codeine cough syrup because my cough is so bad. And this is like

410
00:32:42,036 --> 00:32:48,016
honey, frankincense, lavender, um, and, uh, a few other things in there.

411
00:32:48,096 --> 00:32:49,736
Throw on some elderberry, some zinc.

412
00:32:50,216 --> 00:32:54,516
Right. And, and you just take a little teaspoon of this, put it in your mouth. And I'm telling you

413
00:32:54,516 --> 00:33:00,696
instantaneous relief. It just stops it all. And I'm like, wait a second here.

414
00:33:00,696 --> 00:33:04,096
You know, so I've always been a big fan of that.

415
00:33:04,196 --> 00:33:08,896
And I think it's really neat that you also have incorporated that into your journey or

416
00:33:08,896 --> 00:33:10,856
tried several paths, right?

417
00:33:10,936 --> 00:33:13,616
Because I think everyone has a blind spot.

418
00:33:13,796 --> 00:33:14,276
Absolutely.

419
00:33:14,956 --> 00:33:15,216
Right.

420
00:33:15,276 --> 00:33:20,396
And I think in general, there's, you know, there's a prescribed, you know, mechanism

421
00:33:20,396 --> 00:33:28,956
or, or path to go down, but we are all individual and, you know, very much so your body is different

422
00:33:28,956 --> 00:33:35,856
from mine, which is different from Alex's. So treating us as all the same thing, probably not

423
00:33:35,856 --> 00:33:42,856
the best way we can treat people. And the thing that they really undersell are the side effects

424
00:33:42,856 --> 00:33:50,696
of these medications and the withdrawal of these medications, um, which can be extremely problematic.

425
00:33:50,696 --> 00:34:00,616
And so it blows my mind that we don't start with like Sammy.

426
00:34:00,876 --> 00:34:05,436
And again, I'm not the expert here, but someone's experiencing depression.

427
00:34:05,756 --> 00:34:14,076
It's like, why wouldn't you start with the supplement instead of something with a black box warning that indicates that they may be more suicidal afterwards?

428
00:34:14,076 --> 00:34:24,736
And I've talked to many people who they take one dose and they're right to the ER because they're having these panic attacks is the reaction because, you know, it's going to be very intense.

429
00:34:25,256 --> 00:34:35,736
And again, I'm not anti this is not anti rant of, you know, SSRI medications, but I'm always dumbfounded by why don't we start simpler?

430
00:34:36,736 --> 00:34:40,836
You know, why don't we start, you know, you know, somewhere else?

431
00:34:40,836 --> 00:34:44,516
It's kind of like rather than, you know, in that direction.

432
00:34:45,656 --> 00:34:48,816
It doesn't make sense, you know, whatsoever.

433
00:34:49,176 --> 00:34:51,476
And someone that's willing to kind of blend.

434
00:34:51,916 --> 00:34:56,096
Now, UCI, UCI is another health system that's near me.

435
00:34:56,376 --> 00:34:59,656
They have a very large integrative building.

436
00:35:00,416 --> 00:35:03,656
And it's the Susan Samueli program.

437
00:35:04,436 --> 00:35:07,016
And it's mentioned a little bit.

438
00:35:07,016 --> 00:35:11,476
there's a book called like on healing or how to heal or something along those

439
00:35:11,476 --> 00:35:14,536
lines. I wish I had it just ready right there.

440
00:35:14,596 --> 00:35:19,116
We'll blame the mold for that one. But it is where it is.

441
00:35:19,216 --> 00:35:21,216
It's not just a little room off to the side.

442
00:35:21,216 --> 00:35:25,616
It's its own building and everything built in that building,

443
00:35:25,716 --> 00:35:30,936
which is brand new is designed for that healing modality and healing purpose.

444
00:35:31,456 --> 00:35:34,216
So the Susan Samueli program,

445
00:35:34,216 --> 00:35:39,736
program, integrative program through UCI would probably be one of the closest versions of what

446
00:35:39,736 --> 00:35:48,176
you're looking for. Yeah, that's amazing. And I'm a huge fan of UCI. I actually spent time at UCI as

447
00:35:48,176 --> 00:35:57,976
well. So I knew one of the regions at the time, but yeah, great, great place, amazing medical

448
00:35:57,976 --> 00:36:06,276
school as well as other things. But I think in the medicine, it's a pretty good place to be.

449
00:36:06,276 --> 00:36:14,336
And I don't think it's accidental, too, that it's there. And I say that because anyone that knows

450
00:36:14,336 --> 00:36:21,396
Irvine very well understands that it's a very diverse place in terms of ethnicity. Primarily,

451
00:36:21,396 --> 00:36:27,456
it's going to be Persian and Asian. And both of those cultures are going to also be heavily

452
00:36:27,456 --> 00:36:34,776
influenced by, you know, natural uses of, you know, different supplements, spices, herbs,

453
00:36:34,776 --> 00:36:41,796
and things of that nature as well. And so just that mindset, the idea of, no, no, no, you can

454
00:36:41,796 --> 00:36:46,696
start with acupuncture because in Western medicine, it's always like, I don't know,

455
00:36:46,836 --> 00:36:50,496
see the shrink and try some acupuncture. You know, it's the last ditch, whatever,

456
00:36:50,496 --> 00:36:56,976
versus actually being able to start with acupuncture, being able to understand

457
00:36:56,976 --> 00:36:59,036
acupuncture and the dietician.

458
00:36:59,376 --> 00:37:00,576
Let's start there.

459
00:37:00,776 --> 00:37:04,036
You're not feeling so well, that would be a really good place to start.

460
00:37:05,296 --> 00:37:06,376
Yeah, for sure.

461
00:37:07,136 --> 00:37:09,856
So when you're mentoring, you're coaching stuff,

462
00:37:09,856 --> 00:37:15,156
I have to imagine there's first an immense amount of satisfaction

463
00:37:15,156 --> 00:37:20,316
that comes from helping people through times that you've already been through.

464
00:37:20,496 --> 00:37:24,116
Um, and maybe that's not the case, but I would imagine.

465
00:37:24,116 --> 00:37:31,236
And then, but I also wonder like how, how does that play on your, you know, empathetic

466
00:37:31,236 --> 00:37:38,116
and sympathetic systems taking that in while you're also dealing with the same on your

467
00:37:38,116 --> 00:37:38,416
own?

468
00:37:38,976 --> 00:37:41,056
It's the only thing that I'm good at.

469
00:37:42,156 --> 00:37:44,556
Literally, I'm just built for it.

470
00:37:44,856 --> 00:37:49,176
Um, and it is something that is just my nature.

471
00:37:49,176 --> 00:37:55,116
I see people who are proctologists or surgeons who are eye doctors.

472
00:37:55,516 --> 00:37:56,916
I couldn't do that.

473
00:37:57,156 --> 00:37:58,256
They're accountants.

474
00:37:58,656 --> 00:37:59,916
I couldn't do that.

475
00:38:00,516 --> 00:38:08,436
If a bunch of people want to talk to me about difficult times living with chronic illness, that's my sweet spot.

476
00:38:09,076 --> 00:38:13,456
That's like Barry Bonds having a pitcher that actually wants to pitch to him.

477
00:38:13,996 --> 00:38:16,116
It's kind of like, hey, let's go.

478
00:38:16,296 --> 00:38:17,796
This is what I'm good at.

479
00:38:17,796 --> 00:38:26,036
And so it doesn't burn me out. I can burn myself out. I can be burnt out. Absolutely.

480
00:38:26,996 --> 00:38:33,396
You know, paperwork can burn me out. And and just my own brain, my own thought process,

481
00:38:33,496 --> 00:38:38,256
the little internal monologue, the little internal demon that can burn me out.

482
00:38:38,696 --> 00:38:42,996
Other people and their problems. That's that's my safe spot.

483
00:38:42,996 --> 00:38:48,796
You know, that's where I feel most useful because I've always liked Ram Dass' quote,

484
00:38:48,796 --> 00:38:50,736
we're all just walking each other home.

485
00:38:50,736 --> 00:38:51,896
We're all just walking.

486
00:38:51,896 --> 00:39:12,864
And here is my opportunity to do something where I feel like I giving back So what is it that I enjoy I think there was a Japanese saying forgotten but what is it that you enjoy that you good at that helps other people And it like you put those three

487
00:39:12,864 --> 00:39:19,304
things together. It's kind of like, that's what you should do. And so, Hey, you know what? That

488
00:39:19,304 --> 00:39:26,124
summarizes where it is for me. And there are people that say, Oh, I must be so sad to listen

489
00:39:26,124 --> 00:39:32,044
the sad stories all the time. Isn't it a downer? It's like, no, absolutely not. Because I know that

490
00:39:32,044 --> 00:39:39,704
the stories will change. The stories will improve. Now, I don't cure anybody. I don't have the magic

491
00:39:39,704 --> 00:39:45,144
cure. I don't have the magic beans. I'm not, you know, like, here's my program. Oh, you know,

492
00:39:45,184 --> 00:39:51,144
you need to bump it up to this tier. No, I just do hourly, you know, rates. I don't buy, do packages.

493
00:39:51,144 --> 00:39:54,144
I don't sell, you know, unrealistic dreams.

494
00:39:55,264 --> 00:39:58,004
You know, it's like ultimately I can be as straightforward.

495
00:39:58,144 --> 00:39:59,284
It's like I'm a storyteller.

496
00:39:59,664 --> 00:40:01,344
And I was, we're all stories.

497
00:40:01,464 --> 00:40:04,604
It's kind of like, you know, look around the books around your house.

498
00:40:04,644 --> 00:40:08,844
You know, the story of this country, the story of this, the story of that, the religions.

499
00:40:09,264 --> 00:40:16,484
You know, it's like we have these different stories and we get into a place through illness where the story changes.

500
00:40:16,484 --> 00:40:21,544
and you're in this almost like liminal state, the bardo,

501
00:40:21,824 --> 00:40:25,484
this in-between place as you're going through this dark night of the soul

502
00:40:25,484 --> 00:40:30,424
and you've lost your compass and you don't know, you know,

503
00:40:30,544 --> 00:40:33,604
where's my freedom, where's my purpose, where's my meaning,

504
00:40:33,724 --> 00:40:34,564
where's my identity?

505
00:40:34,564 --> 00:40:38,424
You have this identity collapse and you're just trying to find yourself.

506
00:40:40,964 --> 00:40:41,824
That's awesome.

507
00:40:42,704 --> 00:40:45,664
And so, yeah, I have...

508
00:40:46,484 --> 00:41:02,964
So it almost seems like you are really kind of an empath, but also one that has been able to deal with taking on, and not necessarily take, maybe not an empath, but similar in nature, right?

509
00:41:02,964 --> 00:41:12,864
Because you're taking on other people's things and you're trying to help them make sense of them, trying to help them find a way to be okay with what's going on.

510
00:41:12,904 --> 00:41:13,264
Yes.

511
00:41:13,264 --> 00:41:16,424
To, you know, further their lives.

512
00:41:16,484 --> 00:41:30,564
Right. And I think that probably has a huge impact on their overall health in general. Right. Because if you can kind of get your brain, your, your, you know, psyche to, to be more in line with you and your thinking.

513
00:41:30,564 --> 00:41:55,124
Where it's aligned. Yes, absolutely. You're not fighting yourself. You're not at war with yourself. And a lot of times, you know, and I've seen it throughout, you know, the decades where I've treated people. There are people that can, you can have experiences of mental illness. And then it's absolutely as clear as day when, okay, this person's experiencing some clinically significant mental illness moment.

514
00:41:55,124 --> 00:42:03,364
but most of the time, vast majority of time, there's no mental illness. It's human experiences

515
00:42:03,364 --> 00:42:09,404
and the person is human and they're just lost. They're confused. They're a little scared. They're

516
00:42:09,404 --> 00:42:15,864
lost in the forest and they're dealing with this uncertainty. And so, um, and that's, that's what

517
00:42:15,864 --> 00:42:21,284
I think is the emphasis. You're not mentally ill. You know, it's just like you're not aligned with

518
00:42:21,284 --> 00:42:27,644
the story that's making sense to your experience, to what your physical capacity really is.

519
00:42:27,644 --> 00:42:33,644
And once you can align the story and it's kind of like life can make a lot more sense to you.

520
00:42:34,484 --> 00:42:39,364
But you have to be willing to let go of certain things, grieve certain things.

521
00:42:39,964 --> 00:42:43,744
But there are opportunities to expand other areas.

522
00:42:43,744 --> 00:42:46,764
and that's

523
00:42:46,764 --> 00:42:49,244
so you said books

524
00:42:49,244 --> 00:42:50,804
and I've done

525
00:42:50,804 --> 00:42:52,924
all kinds of silly books

526
00:42:52,924 --> 00:42:54,924
I've done poetry books, no one read the poetry

527
00:42:54,924 --> 00:42:56,884
it's terrible, the poetry was just

528
00:42:56,884 --> 00:42:57,364
for me

529
00:42:57,364 --> 00:43:00,744
it's absolutely god awful poetry

530
00:43:00,744 --> 00:43:02,924
but I needed to

531
00:43:02,924 --> 00:43:04,804
express, but it was only after

532
00:43:04,804 --> 00:43:07,044
my illness did I start

533
00:43:07,044 --> 00:43:08,664
creating poems

534
00:43:08,664 --> 00:43:10,344
and then just journals

535
00:43:10,344 --> 00:43:12,104
and then got silly with it

536
00:43:12,104 --> 00:43:17,844
made some three different coloring books, you know, just for like, can I do this? It was just

537
00:43:17,844 --> 00:43:23,824
this curiosity because when you are lost, like I'll just lost in the forest. It's kind of like,

538
00:43:24,044 --> 00:43:28,284
because, and why the forest? Because if you've ever been lost in the forest and there's no damn

539
00:43:28,284 --> 00:43:34,524
trail around, it's kind of a little scary and you don't have your bearings to you. If you don't,

540
00:43:34,584 --> 00:43:39,284
can't read the sun crossing in it and you don't know where the flow of water is and whatnot,

541
00:43:39,284 --> 00:43:47,184
it can be very, very disorienting. You don't know in what direction to go. And so the whole creation

542
00:43:47,184 --> 00:43:53,804
of these books never came out of a good day. It was always a bad day. And it was almost like

543
00:43:53,804 --> 00:44:01,524
sending out like a signal flare to others to kind of say, hey, come over here. Let's talk about

544
00:44:01,524 --> 00:44:07,404
things. There's a book about this, a poem about this, a coloring book about this. Come and we can

545
00:44:07,404 --> 00:44:14,764
talk about these stories that you're living in that you're struggling with because you've lost

546
00:44:14,764 --> 00:44:18,904
the sense of who you are because life has changed dramatically for you.

547
00:44:22,484 --> 00:44:30,324
My wife and I, we both kind of deal with chronic illness for a while. We've made huge diet changes

548
00:44:30,324 --> 00:44:35,424
in our lives. And I know that's made a significant difference. Have you experienced anything with

549
00:44:35,424 --> 00:44:38,224
With diet change for yourself personally or for any of your clients?

550
00:44:38,224 --> 00:44:39,804
Absolutely, personally, 100%.

551
00:44:39,804 --> 00:44:42,004
Having all kinds of symptoms.

552
00:44:42,004 --> 00:44:56,544
And my immunologist had delayed allergy testing done on me where you would kind of tape these little pucks, almost like those air, I guess those little Apple air finder little buttons.

553
00:44:57,224 --> 00:45:02,644
And tape a series of those on my body and then tape a few more.

554
00:45:02,644 --> 00:45:15,084
And I was able to figure out like no dairy, no eggs, no barley, no corn derived, no coconut derived, which is a whole lot of stuff.

555
00:45:15,304 --> 00:45:15,604
Wow.

556
00:45:15,724 --> 00:45:16,864
Yeah, that is a lot of stuff.

557
00:45:17,404 --> 00:45:19,524
Yeah, the corn is a big one.

558
00:45:19,924 --> 00:45:24,764
And I could really, you know, my hair was falling out and my scalp was itchy.

559
00:45:24,844 --> 00:45:25,464
It was strange.

560
00:45:25,464 --> 00:45:29,264
Like the crown of my head was extremely itchy.

561
00:45:29,264 --> 00:45:36,684
And if I really, you know, amped it up, my heart would start racing and I could have tingling sensation kind of throughout.

562
00:45:36,924 --> 00:45:38,964
And that's just what I could see.

563
00:45:39,104 --> 00:45:44,904
I'm sure, you know, again, there was other things that my body was experiencing that I wasn't.

564
00:45:45,264 --> 00:45:53,244
And so I've gone to a much more simplified diet and I just and I just stick to this very, very simple diet.

565
00:45:53,424 --> 00:45:56,044
And I can eat the same thing every single day.

566
00:45:56,704 --> 00:45:57,264
Me too.

567
00:45:57,264 --> 00:46:01,004
And so that's people say, oh, I just ate that the other day.

568
00:46:01,084 --> 00:46:02,724
I can't possibly eat that again.

569
00:46:03,104 --> 00:46:11,624
And I'm just like, I've had peanut butter and banana every single day for like the past like five years for breakfast.

570
00:46:11,784 --> 00:46:16,204
And it's like I'm looking forward to tomorrow because I like my peanut butter and banana.

571
00:46:17,004 --> 00:46:23,064
And so it's and rice, broccoli and maybe salmon or chicken.

572
00:46:23,064 --> 00:46:26,064
And a lot of times I don't even eat lunch.

573
00:46:26,064 --> 00:46:35,724
lunch. And so I try to keep it very, very, very simple. But I have noticed, yes, the dietary

574
00:46:35,724 --> 00:46:42,304
aspect. I mean, this is the same thing where we put the pills. The pills go here, but the pill

575
00:46:42,304 --> 00:46:48,204
could just be broccoli sprouts too. It can be the right protein. It can be the right thing.

576
00:46:48,204 --> 00:47:01,644
And usually it's, you know, and I'm not the, you know, again, I'm not the dietician, but I've found that it's just amazing when you just say, you know, the whole middle part of the grocery store.

577
00:47:01,864 --> 00:47:03,304
Yeah, just don't go there.

578
00:47:04,444 --> 00:47:07,164
We've talked about that several times on this program.

579
00:47:07,164 --> 00:47:09,604
We just shop the periphery of the store.

580
00:47:09,784 --> 00:47:14,144
We just, the vegetables, the meat, and that's pretty much it.

581
00:47:14,204 --> 00:47:15,524
All the junk in the boxes.

582
00:47:16,204 --> 00:47:16,424
Forget it.

583
00:47:16,424 --> 00:47:21,024
If you can find a farm stand instead of a store, do that.

584
00:47:21,444 --> 00:47:21,864
Do that.

585
00:47:22,224 --> 00:47:22,504
Yes.

586
00:47:22,604 --> 00:47:23,644
No, absolutely.

587
00:47:23,964 --> 00:47:24,444
Absolutely.

588
00:47:24,444 --> 00:47:31,144
If it's viable or if you can find a butcher, you know, you know, it's kind of like that

589
00:47:31,144 --> 00:47:34,104
you can kind of work with those kinds of different things.

590
00:47:34,104 --> 00:47:39,364
And so, but by all means, I just try to keep it as simple as possible.

591
00:47:40,264 --> 00:47:46,124
You know, I, I don't even put a lot of times dressing on if I have a salad, say no dressing,

592
00:47:46,124 --> 00:47:52,044
But I'll mix it up with my protein and whatever vegetable, and it's just more vegetables.

593
00:47:52,604 --> 00:47:55,404
And it's just, you know, more greens coming my way.

594
00:47:56,624 --> 00:47:58,804
But it's amazing.

595
00:47:58,984 --> 00:48:04,064
The middle part, I always think that's what they decided to sell us in the 1950s.

596
00:48:04,624 --> 00:48:13,184
You know, it's kind of like the 1950s, they decided we can just, it's basically, you know, different forms of spam, basically.

597
00:48:13,744 --> 00:48:15,344
It's like non-meat spam.

598
00:48:15,344 --> 00:48:19,524
You know, that's what exists in the middle of the grocery store.

599
00:48:20,164 --> 00:48:24,364
So when in the food pyramid, I mean, that thing's horrible.

600
00:48:24,664 --> 00:48:24,984
Yeah.

601
00:48:25,124 --> 00:48:27,484
If you follow that advice.

602
00:48:28,164 --> 00:48:28,604
Yeah.

603
00:48:28,744 --> 00:48:30,824
I, you know, I'm bad at following advice.

604
00:48:30,824 --> 00:48:39,884
And the easiest thing to do is to be your own doctor is to like, you know, eat something and pay, but pay attention, pay attention to how it makes you feel.

605
00:48:39,884 --> 00:48:44,144
Because humans are so, so habitual.

606
00:48:44,144 --> 00:48:50,864
so we have roughly about 70,000 thoughts a day and about 80% of that's recycled from yesterday

607
00:48:50,864 --> 00:48:56,764
so we get into like the poison and we just recycle what's familiar well like why are you drinking

608
00:48:56,764 --> 00:49:02,444
diet coke because I always drink diet coke you know it's kind of like I mean you know okay so

609
00:49:02,444 --> 00:49:07,464
let's not do that and we can you know try something else or whatever it is and I don't

610
00:49:07,464 --> 00:49:13,424
give dietary advice you know in terms of that respect but we get but that's where we do get

611
00:49:13,424 --> 00:49:20,644
into what I do do, which is we get caught into these ruts of a story and we keep on telling this

612
00:49:20,644 --> 00:49:27,844
very familiar story. And it seems so convincing, not because it's true, but because it's familiar.

613
00:49:28,844 --> 00:49:36,504
And so that's where, you know, I'm here as the human form of ayahuasca to break some patterns.

614
00:49:38,044 --> 00:49:41,624
Yeah. I like to describe some of that process as the porcupine theory.

615
00:49:41,624 --> 00:49:47,044
you know it's like you're bear hugging a porcupine and stabbing you and you're bleeding and it sucks

616
00:49:47,044 --> 00:49:53,684
but it's your porcupine if you let it go someone else might get it you know it's my porcupine i

617
00:49:53,684 --> 00:50:02,444
have to hold on to it yes yes and so there's always a lot of letting go yeah and and that's

618
00:50:02,444 --> 00:50:09,264
one of the things that i've definitely have seen through getting ill for myself is i've i've become

619
00:50:09,264 --> 00:50:24,664
So I was not horribly materialistic before, but letting go and really being able to see how much culture is trying to sell us, how much society and culture is trying to get us to be a certain way.

620
00:50:25,464 --> 00:50:35,484
You know, I still believe in razor blades, unlike you two, you know, but, you know, and the whole, you know, you're going to make me the drummer.

621
00:50:35,484 --> 00:50:39,244
It's easy to talk, you know, but on the end, the sexy factor.

622
00:50:39,264 --> 00:50:44,204
you know i mean there there's an easy way man i always thought it was funny that the drummer

623
00:50:44,204 --> 00:50:49,644
in zz top his last name was beard yeah that's hilarious is it really i didn't know that his

624
00:50:49,644 --> 00:50:55,984
name's frank beard yeah he's the only one without one so technically he has one it's just the

625
00:50:55,984 --> 00:51:04,244
invisible kind that's right so if you had any like if you had any advice if you were say talking to

626
00:51:04,244 --> 00:51:08,424
someone who is dealing with this right now but hasn't gotten to the point where they've talked

627
00:51:08,424 --> 00:51:15,884
to someone like you, they're in the churn, right? What would be like a few of the top things you

628
00:51:15,884 --> 00:51:21,544
would, you would tell them? So I would tell them, I would tell them to do expressive writing,

629
00:51:21,724 --> 00:51:27,564
which is kind of a cousin to journaling, but it's a little bit more raw. So you get a pen

630
00:51:27,564 --> 00:51:33,204
and paper, set a timer, five minutes, 10 minutes, and you start writing whatever's on your top of

631
00:51:33,204 --> 00:51:37,564
mind, whatever you're thinking about kind of in that moment. So you're not talking about like,

632
00:51:37,564 --> 00:51:41,184
oh, I went to the market and this happened and I talked to somebody, you're thinking,

633
00:51:41,344 --> 00:51:45,024
I don't know what to write. So you write down, I don't know what to write. And then you're

634
00:51:45,024 --> 00:51:49,684
thinking, this is stupid. So you write down, this is stupid. And like, just keep on writing just like

635
00:51:49,684 --> 00:51:57,444
that. No grammar, no punctuation, no nothing. Just don't stop the pen. And because so much of

636
00:51:57,444 --> 00:52:02,904
our mind just will just loop in this rumination kind of state and a great way of being able to

637
00:52:02,904 --> 00:52:04,964
break that rumination, a great way to have that.

638
00:52:04,992 --> 00:52:11,812
catharsis and be able to see your own thoughts is this expressive writing where you just write

639
00:52:11,812 --> 00:52:18,472
just nonstop, five minutes, 10 minutes. It doesn't really cost you much. It's ink in a pen or ink

640
00:52:18,472 --> 00:52:25,072
into paper. Now, what's important though, is at the end you rip up the paper. You have to destroy

641
00:52:25,072 --> 00:52:30,012
it because here's the thing. You're going to be so much more honest with yourself and you're not

642
00:52:30,012 --> 00:52:34,572
going to think like, because you may get a little dark and there may be some things that you maybe

643
00:52:34,572 --> 00:52:38,012
you not want to share with other people or you wouldn't want other people to come across.

644
00:52:38,392 --> 00:52:43,872
So if you know that you're going to tear up that paper, it's going to be so much more

645
00:52:43,872 --> 00:52:47,072
of an authentic experience for you.

646
00:52:47,972 --> 00:52:53,792
So by far, that is the easiest way to kind of like, if you just did that, it's one of

647
00:52:53,792 --> 00:52:54,232
those things.

648
00:52:54,372 --> 00:52:56,152
I tell everyone to do that.

649
00:52:56,532 --> 00:52:57,652
No one never does it.

650
00:52:57,912 --> 00:53:00,392
And then lo and behold, someone actually does it.

651
00:53:00,472 --> 00:53:02,312
And you're like, they're like, this is amazing.

652
00:53:02,412 --> 00:53:03,452
This is the best thing ever.

653
00:53:03,452 --> 00:53:09,772
and you know it's kind of like it's it's mind-blowing to them um but it's kind of like

654
00:53:09,772 --> 00:53:15,552
ah it's too much effort you know it's like people nowadays just want to swipe and they just want to

655
00:53:15,552 --> 00:53:22,192
hit a button rather than because a lot of times you know people have a tough time you know like

656
00:53:22,192 --> 00:53:29,112
doing meditation you know my favorite version of meditation is like watching the waves you know it's

657
00:53:29,112 --> 00:53:36,272
mindfulness, but, uh, or really my favorite one is just watching the leaves blow in a tree. I can

658
00:53:36,272 --> 00:53:41,792
just sit there for like, you know, forever and just watch the patterns and just watch the leaves

659
00:53:41,792 --> 00:53:48,672
flow and, and, and to create a little bit more stillness. We need a little bit more Thoreau's

660
00:53:48,672 --> 00:53:55,352
Walden pond. We need more stillness in our life. Too much of us, we're driving with two accelerators

661
00:53:55,352 --> 00:53:56,872
and we're forgetting about the break.

662
00:53:57,052 --> 00:53:59,092
So we need to find different ways

663
00:53:59,092 --> 00:54:00,792
to kind of slow things down.

664
00:54:02,432 --> 00:54:03,592
I think that's awesome.

665
00:54:03,832 --> 00:54:05,372
I think that's great advice for everybody.

666
00:54:05,472 --> 00:54:08,452
I'm going to try the expressive writing.

667
00:54:09,212 --> 00:54:10,232
Yeah, I'm going to try that.

668
00:54:10,412 --> 00:54:11,092
Yeah, look it up.

669
00:54:11,132 --> 00:54:11,932
I didn't make it up.

670
00:54:12,112 --> 00:54:13,272
It's not mine.

671
00:54:13,332 --> 00:54:15,152
I'm just sharing it along.

672
00:54:15,312 --> 00:54:18,392
It's just the passage of wisdom, so to speak.

673
00:54:18,992 --> 00:54:20,952
But there isn't this,

674
00:54:21,132 --> 00:54:22,492
because people will always think,

675
00:54:22,552 --> 00:54:24,332
like, I don't know what to say.

676
00:54:24,332 --> 00:54:28,012
Like, I don't know what to write if they're just told to journal.

677
00:54:28,452 --> 00:54:31,592
But if you just, no, no, no, just whatever's in your mind in that moment.

678
00:54:31,832 --> 00:54:34,612
And it's just kind of like so much easier.

679
00:54:35,072 --> 00:54:36,392
And it's raw.

680
00:54:37,012 --> 00:54:46,952
And it's almost like when you get a knot in your shoe and it's like too tight and you have to like pick at it, pick at it, pick at it.

681
00:54:47,212 --> 00:54:52,852
And eventually you start pulling on threads that actually start moving and it can resolve.

682
00:54:52,852 --> 00:54:59,952
Most of the time when we get into this plate of the metaphorical human knot here, what do we want to do?

683
00:55:00,032 --> 00:55:01,252
We just distract ourselves.

684
00:55:01,712 --> 00:55:04,152
And we have a world where we have no stillness.

685
00:55:04,272 --> 00:55:05,572
We have no more boredom.

686
00:55:05,972 --> 00:55:07,792
You know, like that doesn't exist anymore.

687
00:55:07,932 --> 00:55:09,572
We can constantly distract ourselves.

688
00:55:09,872 --> 00:55:17,852
We can constantly bet on every single thing that's happening in our world in terms of, you know, is that politician going to use that word in the next speech?

689
00:55:17,852 --> 00:55:21,312
Or, you know, how many points or how many this or how many that?

690
00:55:21,312 --> 00:55:25,412
It's like we have no stillness.

691
00:55:25,532 --> 00:55:28,812
We have no presence with who we are within ourselves.

692
00:55:29,952 --> 00:55:32,512
I think the missing key is throwing it away afterward.

693
00:55:32,772 --> 00:55:37,172
I've kept journals before and I still have them for whatever reason.

694
00:55:37,272 --> 00:55:38,172
I never look at them again.

695
00:55:38,332 --> 00:55:39,632
I need to let it go.

696
00:55:39,632 --> 00:55:42,952
Because the real value is the expression.

697
00:55:43,352 --> 00:55:45,252
It's the teapot whistling.

698
00:55:45,612 --> 00:55:47,592
It's blowing off that steam.

699
00:55:47,592 --> 00:55:53,032
and I think knowing that it's going to be destroyed allows you to be a little bit more raw,

700
00:55:53,152 --> 00:55:57,532
a little bit more untamed, a little bit more just like, and for the most part, you know,

701
00:55:57,532 --> 00:56:02,372
the parts that we would probably want to not share with everyone, it's kind of like those

702
00:56:02,372 --> 00:56:07,812
little shadow parts of usually it's the darkness, it's the sadness, it's the anger, it's those

703
00:56:07,812 --> 00:56:12,652
different things. You could be angry with somebody or you could have, you know, super dark thoughts

704
00:56:12,652 --> 00:56:18,772
about yourself and it's better to express them than to keep them just locked away inside your

705
00:56:18,772 --> 00:56:25,632
head i just have to fight against my uh semi-hoarder tendencies which i'm pretty sure is hereditary

706
00:56:25,632 --> 00:56:31,752
that i get from my my parents but we won't true true true but it's kind of like it's a piece of

707
00:56:31,752 --> 00:56:39,012
paper so it's kind of like hopefully it's easier but you know um i'll definitely try it for sure

708
00:56:39,012 --> 00:56:43,132
Yeah. Or if you want to be a hoarder about it, shred it, but keep the shreddings.

709
00:56:43,672 --> 00:56:45,592
You know, I can compromise.

710
00:56:47,352 --> 00:56:47,792
Yeah.

711
00:56:47,892 --> 00:56:49,072
Put it in the compost pile.

712
00:56:49,372 --> 00:56:54,012
Yeah, absolutely. You don't have to get rid of it. It's just make it so it's not legible.

713
00:56:55,372 --> 00:56:55,972
There you go.

714
00:56:56,552 --> 00:57:01,652
Yeah. I actually just went through this with someone as well, going through some grief and anger.

715
00:57:02,832 --> 00:57:07,112
And I told them centered around a specific person in their life.

716
00:57:07,112 --> 00:57:14,892
And I told them just get out a pad of paper and start writing, write everything you want to say to this person.

717
00:57:15,152 --> 00:57:16,072
It doesn't matter.

718
00:57:16,252 --> 00:57:18,552
Don't, don't, you know, no grammar, no nothing.

719
00:57:18,712 --> 00:57:21,292
Don't, it doesn't have to make sense to anyone.

720
00:57:21,412 --> 00:57:22,912
Just put it on the paper.

721
00:57:22,972 --> 00:57:23,912
Are you stealing my ideas?

722
00:57:23,912 --> 00:57:24,892
Fold it up.

723
00:57:25,192 --> 00:57:29,232
Well, no, I actually took psych classes for, for a while.

724
00:57:29,232 --> 00:57:32,932
I was actually in the drug and alcohol canceling field for a while.

725
00:57:32,932 --> 00:57:38,612
and, you know, fold it up, put it in an envelope, address it to them.

726
00:57:38,832 --> 00:57:40,532
You don't have to put the address and all that junk.

727
00:57:40,532 --> 00:57:45,992
Just address it to them and then go build a fire in your grill and throw it in there.

728
00:57:46,492 --> 00:57:47,612
Absolutely, 100%.

729
00:57:47,612 --> 00:57:48,432
Just be done with it.

730
00:57:49,292 --> 00:57:52,632
But, you know, it's always met with, well, that's goofy.

731
00:57:52,792 --> 00:57:54,672
I don't really want to take the time to do that.

732
00:57:54,732 --> 00:57:55,472
It's uncomfortable.

733
00:57:55,972 --> 00:57:58,952
It's, you know, but, you know, hopefully it'll take.

734
00:57:59,292 --> 00:58:01,932
And people don't want to sit with the discomfort of it.

735
00:58:01,932 --> 00:58:14,052
And it's kind of like, and as human beings, it's like we can keep ourselves at like 72 degrees all the time, you know, in the bedroom, in the car, in the office.

736
00:58:14,052 --> 00:58:16,072
It's like we don't have to have discomfort.

737
00:58:16,312 --> 00:58:18,672
It's kind of like we can play that video game.

738
00:58:18,792 --> 00:58:19,972
We can scroll reels.

739
00:58:20,092 --> 00:58:20,972
We can do whatever.

740
00:58:21,612 --> 00:58:28,532
And so when someone says, hey, man, that thing that really hurts, let's really look at that and let's really examine that.

741
00:58:28,532 --> 00:58:45,976
That you know that what I do with some people obviously And you have done with many people because it is just having slowing it down having that space and having that permission for the other person Like

742
00:58:45,976 --> 00:58:52,796
this is why we're here to do this thing. And, you know, and people can then kind of go there with it.

743
00:58:53,436 --> 00:59:00,316
Um, you know, and so it's like being able just to create that space and that space where we're

744
00:59:00,316 --> 00:59:06,796
just focus on that one thing and we're focused on pain because the easiest way to get through grief

745
00:59:06,796 --> 00:59:14,476
is to grieve it's kind of like you have to grieve that's how we get through grief you know we don't

746
00:59:14,476 --> 00:59:19,476
distract our way through we allow ourselves to have the feelings we allow ourselves to go through

747
00:59:19,476 --> 00:59:25,316
the briar patch you know what hurts what's gonna feel like it's scraping us up and it's kind of

748
00:59:25,316 --> 00:59:30,156
like oh this hurts and we back away it's like yeah that hurts keep on going keep on going

749
00:59:30,156 --> 00:59:38,116
it will, it's, it's a safe pain. It's a valid pain. It's a real pain, but it's through the pain

750
00:59:38,116 --> 00:59:45,316
is where is where the payoff is. That's why people don't grow. They don't self-actualize.

751
00:59:45,316 --> 00:59:50,516
They don't find themselves because they're kind of constantly in a state of avoidance and they,

752
00:59:50,656 --> 00:59:56,676
they don't realize that everything that they want is usually on the other side of pain.

753
00:59:56,676 --> 01:00:06,616
yeah i had a friend and mentor uh he's passed away since but he it's funny you were talking

754
01:00:06,616 --> 01:00:11,756
about the mindfulness right and i remember coming out to him one time and he was just staring up at

755
01:00:11,756 --> 01:00:18,036
a tree eucalyptus tree i'm like what are you doing he goes i'm just watching it and swaying

756
01:00:18,036 --> 01:00:23,096
in the wind and leaves are going and you know and he went into a whole thing about mindfulness and

757
01:00:23,096 --> 01:00:29,296
how, you know, if it didn't bend, it would break. So being flexible with that wind. And he used to

758
01:00:29,296 --> 01:00:36,196
have a saying that I, I, it literally, it took me years to, to, and I'm probably still modifying

759
01:00:36,196 --> 01:00:44,816
this in my own brain, but he used to say, uh, pain is good. Extreme pain, extremely good. And I would

760
01:00:44,816 --> 01:00:52,216
never cheat you out of the pain that you so richly deserve. Yes. And hearing that at the time, it was

761
01:00:52,216 --> 01:00:57,536
kind of like, what a butthead, you know what I mean? But he wasn't, he wasn't meaning it like

762
01:00:57,536 --> 01:01:03,116
that. What he was saying is, you know, this pain is what leads to growth. This is how you get

763
01:01:03,116 --> 01:01:08,516
beyond where you are and to the next place, right? Every great man is broken.

764
01:01:09,356 --> 01:01:14,696
Exactly. And so it was, it was an interesting thing for me and it's really neat to hear you

765
01:01:14,696 --> 01:01:22,696
say some of that as well. Yeah. It's, you know, I've been, uh, I steal like an artist,

766
01:01:22,936 --> 01:01:29,396
you know, it's, uh, I don't, I don't recreate, you know, I, there isn't anything that is

767
01:01:29,396 --> 01:01:35,916
terribly original other than the delivery. Um, but it's kind of like from, you know,

768
01:01:35,916 --> 01:01:42,916
the addiction world, uh, through just, you know, counseling psychology, but counseling psychology,

769
01:01:42,916 --> 01:01:46,776
it's kind of like, it's like, oh, you know, it's like, that sounds like it's a thing. It's like,

770
01:01:46,816 --> 01:01:51,836
well, it's a repackaging of philosophy. You know, it's, it's, that's the other thing, you know,

771
01:01:51,916 --> 01:01:57,256
stoicism is cognitive behavioral therapy, you know, acceptance commitment therapy, you know,

772
01:01:57,256 --> 01:02:04,356
is ultimately, you know, an Eastern tradition of, you know, meditation. It's like, we will repackage

773
01:02:04,356 --> 01:02:08,916
things and go like, look what I came up with. It's kind of like, you didn't come up with that.

774
01:02:08,916 --> 01:02:14,996
you repackaged that, you know, the cabbage going bad is now cabbage stew, you know,

775
01:02:15,096 --> 01:02:24,276
there you go. There you go. That's pretty awesome. Um, yeah, I, I, this has been a really,

776
01:02:24,416 --> 01:02:29,616
really great conversation so far. I really appreciate you giving us some time and, uh,

777
01:02:29,616 --> 01:02:34,396
Oh, I enjoy it. I mean, you know, talking to two men here, having a conversation and,

778
01:02:34,396 --> 01:02:48,096
And, you know, I don't think it's one of the things that more people should be doing more often is having conversations and interacting with one another because we are we're tribal animals.

779
01:02:48,096 --> 01:03:03,856
And even though we're just looking at each other on a screen, there is, you know, which is the less perfect, but it's a lot better than us, you know, just distracting ourselves with video games and not actually interacting with humans at all.

780
01:03:03,856 --> 01:03:28,196
And we're tribal. We need tribes. We need communication. We need this. It's so fundamental to our existence. One of the biggest things is that our nervous system is completely not built for this, for modernity, basically. I love the book. There's a book called Civilized to Death. And we're not built for this at all whatsoever.

781
01:03:28,196 --> 01:03:35,876
But they've figured out how to take the units of value out of us and extract things ultimately from us.

782
01:03:36,696 --> 01:03:39,036
But this is not how we were built.

783
01:03:39,316 --> 01:03:40,976
This is not what we were designed for.

784
01:03:41,076 --> 01:03:41,576
Not at all.

785
01:03:42,716 --> 01:03:42,796
No.

786
01:03:42,996 --> 01:03:46,976
And you can see it in a lot of societal issues as well.

787
01:03:47,296 --> 01:03:47,656
Yes.

788
01:03:48,916 --> 01:03:51,076
But that's a different podcast.

789
01:03:51,796 --> 01:03:54,556
You can hardly get people to make a phone call these days.

790
01:03:54,756 --> 01:03:55,176
Oh, no.

791
01:03:55,176 --> 01:03:55,556
Absolutely.

792
01:03:55,556 --> 01:03:58,176
They don't want to deal with you if it's not a text.

793
01:03:58,456 --> 01:03:59,816
Yes, yes, absolutely.

794
01:04:00,196 --> 01:04:05,936
And we should be living in bands of people, you know, with 60, 50, 60 people.

795
01:04:05,936 --> 01:04:07,516
It's kind of like working together.

796
01:04:07,856 --> 01:04:09,056
No one has careers or ideas.

797
01:04:09,196 --> 01:04:10,796
Everyone, it's communal.

798
01:04:11,156 --> 01:04:14,636
It's like where it's this shared kind of thing that's kind of going on.

799
01:04:15,156 --> 01:04:20,316
And then it's kind of like, and then we feel like, okay, we got caught up in this dystopian wave.

800
01:04:20,436 --> 01:04:24,056
And you're just like, ah, the Amish kind of have it right some other way.

801
01:04:24,056 --> 01:04:28,336
They're like, I'm not going Amish, but it's kind of like, I will give them tip of the hat.

802
01:04:28,416 --> 01:04:41,356
Like they've got some of that down, you know, and, you know, we were, they foresaw something that we didn't and living more true to, you know, how humans really are.

803
01:04:43,176 --> 01:04:44,856
We've talked about that several times.

804
01:04:44,856 --> 01:04:48,276
Like the Amish do have some, some things, right.

805
01:04:48,376 --> 01:04:49,676
Some things I don't agree with.

806
01:04:49,776 --> 01:04:51,536
I mean, it is a high control group.

807
01:04:51,676 --> 01:04:51,976
Yes.

808
01:04:51,976 --> 01:04:53,856
I don't agree with some of those things, but

809
01:04:53,856 --> 01:04:56,216
there's always that fine line

810
01:04:56,216 --> 01:04:57,796
when you get people together

811
01:04:57,796 --> 01:04:59,716
like an intentional community

812
01:04:59,716 --> 01:05:01,256
and a cult, I don't know.

813
01:05:01,456 --> 01:05:20,540
Yeah I not hurting my feelings I not Amish How you keep it from going over the lines I just lived in Ohio for a little bit So you know I was just dodging little carts you know so But if you look at it across society name one societal you know group that isn that

814
01:05:21,700 --> 01:05:22,180
Name one.

815
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:27,300
You know, we say, okay, they have that high degree of control.

816
01:05:28,780 --> 01:05:29,860
Now to some degree.

817
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:30,360
Yeah.

818
01:05:30,740 --> 01:05:32,460
Well, no, to a massive degree.

819
01:05:32,460 --> 01:05:39,500
I would argue that they have probably no more control to their lives in their communities than we do in ours.

820
01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:44,180
It's probably different because control state and your federal government.

821
01:05:44,180 --> 01:05:48,340
You've got your your your whoever is employing you.

822
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:51,640
You've got all of this stuff that's imposing control on you.

823
01:05:51,820 --> 01:05:52,340
Right.

824
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:53,820
We don't see it that way.

825
01:05:53,900 --> 01:05:57,980
We see it as, oh, well, these are beneficial for this reason or that reason or whatever.

826
01:05:58,140 --> 01:05:59,160
But some people do.

827
01:05:59,160 --> 01:06:05,820
but the fact is is that control is still there right they'll tell you well you can't have a

828
01:06:05,820 --> 01:06:12,880
hydrogen automobile well why not because we kind of made that not the winner you can have an ev

829
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:19,940
instead you can't do this you can't use that type of energy we can't have thorium reactors because

830
01:06:19,940 --> 01:06:26,080
we won't license anyone to actually test and develop these things until very recently so

831
01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:33,040
you know, the control is there. We just, it's not, you know, our lives are a lot more complex

832
01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:40,280
and intertwined and it's a much larger society. So we tend not to see it as that overt control

833
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:45,260
that a small community with a church leader having that control exerts on that community.

834
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:52,820
Right. Does that make sense? It makes sense. It's a difference between when the county says

835
01:06:52,820 --> 01:06:59,000
you have to pay your taxes versus elder, you know, Jacob, you know, says like, you know,

836
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:07,300
you can't do X, Y, and Z. And so, um, you know, it's like, I understand where you're coming from,

837
01:07:07,300 --> 01:07:13,620
that there's lots of control and, you know, in, in different ways. Um, and, but, you know,

838
01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:21,960
but the control comes off differently. And, um, obviously within, uh, a religious setting or,

839
01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:25,240
or cult setting where you,

840
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:29,480
you really lock down probably a lot of behaviors because I,

841
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:31,320
I may not be able to have that reactor,

842
01:07:31,540 --> 01:07:33,120
but I can flip everyone off and,

843
01:07:33,120 --> 01:07:33,480
you know,

844
01:07:33,940 --> 01:07:35,760
go move to Idaho and,

845
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:36,160
and,

846
01:07:36,160 --> 01:07:38,360
and do my little thing there.

847
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:40,120
So I have a little bit more individual freedom,

848
01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:41,320
maybe in that respect.

849
01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:43,620
But at the same time,

850
01:07:43,620 --> 01:07:49,400
it's kind of like I can't necessarily put a chicken coop in my backyard and I

851
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:50,280
can't do X,

852
01:07:50,380 --> 01:07:50,540
Y,

853
01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:50,900
and Z.

854
01:07:50,900 --> 01:07:52,540
and I can't have the hydrogen car.

855
01:07:52,780 --> 01:07:56,720
So there's going to be pluses and minuses kind of throughout.

856
01:07:57,100 --> 01:07:58,920
And that's oddly enough, it's kind of like,

857
01:07:58,980 --> 01:08:00,660
that's what I talk about with my clients.

858
01:08:00,660 --> 01:08:02,740
It's kind of like, where's your agency

859
01:08:02,740 --> 01:08:05,720
and where are the things that you have to let go?

860
01:08:06,300 --> 01:08:09,040
You know, we have to do that on societal basis

861
01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:11,360
in terms of, you know, where we want to live

862
01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:14,100
and how we want to live of whatever.

863
01:08:14,560 --> 01:08:17,140
North Carolina doesn't have the same rules as Florida.

864
01:08:17,420 --> 01:08:19,200
You know, it's like there's a lot of similarities,

865
01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:23,400
but their site differences depend on what you want to own and how much do you make.

866
01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:30,160
And, and it kind of bends a little bit and versus kind of California and, and which is,

867
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:34,980
you know, highly different than those. And there's kind of pluses and minuses to it all.

868
01:08:35,380 --> 01:08:40,420
And at the end of the day, there's, there's no perfect path. And that's one of the things that

869
01:08:40,420 --> 01:08:46,640
I always like is that in the journey of life, but in where the journey of my clients,

870
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:52,580
there's no yellow brick road there's nothing that's so obvious like this is the way you know

871
01:08:52,580 --> 01:08:58,160
it's like no no no it's like part of it is you're lost in the forest but it's kind of like

872
01:08:58,160 --> 01:09:04,100
it's like we don't need a path completely in the forest but we need to start going somewhere

873
01:09:04,100 --> 01:09:09,660
you know let's start moving and let's start moving towards something that you want to be

874
01:09:09,660 --> 01:09:14,920
you know that you want to kind of i wouldn't say manifest as if you're just kind of creating but

875
01:09:14,920 --> 01:09:22,920
what are your intentions and that you're moving intentionally through this world? Because lo and

876
01:09:22,920 --> 01:09:28,980
behold, if you move through this world with intentions, you may actually smack into a few

877
01:09:28,980 --> 01:09:36,240
of those intentions. That's good to have goals. Yeah. Yeah. What would you say would be some of

878
01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:42,720
the biggest realizations that you took away from this particular portion of your life that

879
01:09:42,720 --> 01:09:45,340
weren't necessarily there for you previously?

880
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:58,720
That I don't need so many different things and distractions. And there's so much that I don't

881
01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:05,600
need. I don't kind of play. I used to play more video games. I don't play video games at all.

882
01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:19,680
And it's really the shedding of a lot of things to then come to a place of, because I've been the caretaker of other people's stories that I realized I need, I'm 51.

883
01:10:20,580 --> 01:10:24,840
And, and it's like, I need my story.

884
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:29,440
It's like, I need, and that's why I wrote different things.

885
01:10:29,620 --> 01:10:31,240
And really the podcast.

886
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:36,220
It's like, I need to find a way to kind of tell my story.

887
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:46,420
That's why I like coming on, you know, other people's podcasts and being able to talk, being able to chat, to be able to kind of, because, you know, I'm not doing it.

888
01:10:46,500 --> 01:10:49,980
So I'm like entertaining you, although it's like, that's a plus.

889
01:10:50,480 --> 01:10:54,060
But my main focus is through conversation.

890
01:10:54,420 --> 01:11:00,100
I'm paying attention to my own thoughts and my own, my own voice, my own story.

891
01:11:00,100 --> 01:11:02,960
who the heck am I?

892
01:11:03,380 --> 01:11:04,380
Who am I?

893
01:11:04,780 --> 01:11:06,000
Why am I here?

894
01:11:06,660 --> 01:11:09,180
And then what can I do with that?

895
01:11:10,940 --> 01:11:16,280
It's all a part of just trying to uncover the story of who is Jeff.

896
01:11:17,660 --> 01:11:18,260
Yeah.

897
01:11:18,480 --> 01:11:19,140
That's awesome.

898
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:21,200
Existential questions.

899
01:11:21,560 --> 01:11:21,840
Yes.

900
01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:22,720
Just the little ones though.

901
01:11:23,100 --> 01:11:24,100
Just the little ones.

902
01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:25,040
Nothing big.

903
01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:27,360
Just why am I here and who am I?

904
01:11:28,860 --> 01:11:29,420
Yeah.

905
01:11:29,420 --> 01:11:34,260
I mean, those are, you know, the age old, like go back to the earliest of the philosophers.

906
01:11:34,660 --> 01:11:46,144
And that one of the primary questions or some of the you know two of the primary questions I would say Who and that who am I what am I supposed to do What the meaning of life And other than

907
01:11:46,144 --> 01:11:53,504
being 42, it's kind of like, you know, like it, which is, which is, you know, the answer truly,

908
01:11:53,504 --> 01:12:00,344
it's kind of like whatever it is that you believe in and, and what, however that package, you know,

909
01:12:00,344 --> 01:12:09,804
may come to you. We live briefly in the window of time of, you know, the universe. We have a brief

910
01:12:09,804 --> 01:12:17,584
little, we see the butterfly's life as so ephemeral, you know, but the mountains are looking at us as,

911
01:12:17,584 --> 01:12:24,704
you know, ephemeral little ants with our brief little lifespans and our little neurotic worries

912
01:12:24,704 --> 01:12:30,784
and concerns. And so it's kind of like, what do we do with this thing? I have this little

913
01:12:30,784 --> 01:12:35,924
consciousness. I have this human-based, carbon-based, you know, vessel that I'm in. It's kind of like,

914
01:12:35,924 --> 01:12:44,264
what can I do that could be potentially useful in this world? And for me, like I said,

915
01:12:44,444 --> 01:12:50,404
the only thing that I'm good at is talking to people who are lost in the forest, you know,

916
01:12:50,404 --> 01:12:56,084
with heavily it's chronic illness, but, you know, I see a lot of,

917
01:12:56,244 --> 01:12:59,944
I see people who may be lost with various reasons.

918
01:13:00,564 --> 01:13:05,664
My main tentpole would be chronic illness, but, you know,

919
01:13:06,444 --> 01:13:10,864
people get lost for different reasons and they need a little bit of help with

920
01:13:10,864 --> 01:13:13,804
their story. Again, not mentally ill, you know,

921
01:13:13,824 --> 01:13:19,204
not this DSM kind of diagnosis. It's just lost with their story.

922
01:13:20,404 --> 01:13:47,504
All right. I think that's a great place to wrap up personally. I think that was wonderful. I'm like, wow, okay. Thank you so much for giving us some of your time. We always like to ask our guests to give a little bit back and give a shout out to a person that was influential to us in a big way. It could be an author, a historical figure, sixth grade science teacher, mom.

923
01:13:47,504 --> 01:14:14,044
Oh, well, you just stole it. I was thinking from the very beginning, it's kind of like it would be mom. And mom does not have the best health. And she's in a memory care unit and a reminder of the fleetingness of life. And it kind of goes back to the stoicism of memento more and all things remember death.

924
01:14:14,044 --> 01:14:17,284
and this is, we're all fragile.

925
01:14:17,744 --> 01:14:20,004
I don't think that you always had a great beard,

926
01:14:21,424 --> 01:14:24,204
but my mom was there for me

927
01:14:24,204 --> 01:14:27,264
and she raised me and she did her best.

928
01:14:27,384 --> 01:14:32,324
I have no tragedy of a childhood whatsoever to speak of.

929
01:14:32,624 --> 01:14:34,244
I had plenty of opportunities

930
01:14:34,244 --> 01:14:37,404
and I was thought of, cared for and loved.

931
01:14:38,964 --> 01:14:42,704
And she was a wonderful woman, Patricia.

932
01:14:42,704 --> 01:14:54,164
and so unfortunately she's in a place that is less than ideal for any one of us but it is a reminder

933
01:14:54,164 --> 01:15:02,284
that you know the the love that we can give you know if you're thinking about it give it you know

934
01:15:02,284 --> 01:15:08,144
because you won't always be able to give it you know because one reason or another things change

935
01:15:08,144 --> 01:15:14,144
well being being in some way shape or form a reflection of our parents she sounds like she

936
01:15:14,144 --> 01:15:20,804
was a wonderful human being and a wonderful uh parent or she is a wonderful human being and a

937
01:15:20,804 --> 01:15:29,124
wonderful parent and uh yeah that's an amazing shout out i love that all right okay so let's

938
01:15:29,124 --> 01:15:34,604
plug you where can people find you what are you working on what's coming up next i i i'm working

939
01:15:34,604 --> 01:15:42,024
on people. I'm working on stories. I think I will continue to dabble with my solo podcasts

940
01:15:42,024 --> 01:15:51,424
and find interesting ways of saying things. I've done over 50 episodes and I'm trying to find and

941
01:15:51,424 --> 01:15:58,484
adapt to finding different ways of being able to talk about similar topics so I'm not completely

942
01:15:58,484 --> 01:16:07,564
boring myself or the audience. And, um, and I'm just looking for someone to, uh, to reach out and

943
01:16:07,564 --> 01:16:14,244
to, uh, to talk. I, uh, nothing fascinates me more. I just, I don't need a new watch, a new car or

944
01:16:14,244 --> 01:16:21,964
whatever, but a new story of it, where I am humbled when someone says, you know, I will let

945
01:16:21,964 --> 01:16:27,804
you into my inner sanctum and world and pain because I need some assistance with this.

946
01:16:28,484 --> 01:16:31,444
Um, I I'm always honored by that tremendously.

947
01:16:31,984 --> 01:16:34,944
And so hopefully that's what I'll be working on.

948
01:16:36,164 --> 01:16:37,444
What's the name of your podcast?

949
01:16:37,544 --> 01:16:38,384
Where can we find it?

950
01:16:38,484 --> 01:16:44,124
Uh, to the bone conversations, uh, regarding pain, illness, and meaning.

951
01:16:44,124 --> 01:16:46,364
You can find it on Spotify, Apple, YouTube.

952
01:16:46,544 --> 01:16:52,344
And if you want to find me, it's drbone.live, D-R-B-O-N-E.live.

953
01:16:52,504 --> 01:16:53,864
It's the easiest way to get ahold of me.

954
01:16:55,984 --> 01:16:56,464
Wonderful.

955
01:16:56,464 --> 01:17:00,784
Well, once again, thank you so much for giving us some of your time.

956
01:17:00,904 --> 01:17:07,304
Time is one of our most precious commodities, and you've agreed to give us some, and that's a wonderful thing.

957
01:17:07,864 --> 01:17:09,584
I enjoy talking to you very much.

958
01:17:10,504 --> 01:17:10,884
Both of you.

959
01:17:10,884 --> 01:17:12,144
The feeling is mutual.

960
01:17:12,564 --> 01:17:13,484
Absolutely mutual.

961
01:17:13,704 --> 01:17:14,984
It's been a wonderful session.

962
01:17:15,724 --> 01:17:16,084
All right.

963
01:17:16,444 --> 01:17:17,764
Everybody, you know where you can find us.

964
01:17:17,824 --> 01:17:18,264
We're everywhere.

965
01:17:18,584 --> 01:17:20,464
We are now hosted off Fountain.fm.

966
01:17:20,504 --> 01:17:21,224
You've heard the spiel.

967
01:17:22,104 --> 01:17:22,984
Go look us up.

968
01:17:23,104 --> 01:17:23,504
Find us.

969
01:17:23,824 --> 01:17:24,544
Leave a thumbs up.

970
01:17:24,544 --> 01:17:26,124
Leave a thumbs down if you didn't like us.

971
01:17:26,464 --> 01:17:27,224
Tell us we suck.

972
01:17:27,344 --> 01:17:29,184
We'll respond in a kind way.

973
01:17:29,524 --> 01:17:30,304
It'll be interesting.

974
01:17:30,764 --> 01:17:35,244
If you have an idea for a topic or a guest on the show, leave a comment.

975
01:17:35,604 --> 01:17:38,864
We'll see what we can do about getting that person on the show.

976
01:17:39,384 --> 01:17:46,684
And remember, wherever you are, whenever you're watching this, have an amazing day.

977
01:17:47,564 --> 01:17:48,404
Thanks for coming by, Jeff.

978
01:17:48,664 --> 01:17:49,204
See you, everybody.

979
01:17:49,904 --> 01:17:50,284
Thank you.

980
01:17:56,464 --> 01:18:12,424
We'll see you next time.