Dairy or Dangerous - The Raw Milk Deep Dive

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Hi everybody, welcome to the Space Tomatoes podcast.

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I am one of your hosts, LX, and we also have Mr. Havoc over here.

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Hey, Havoc.

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Hello there.

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Hey.

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So today we're going to get a little bit of a milk mustache on, maybe.

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If you don't like milk, too bad, because today I think we're going to be talking about some

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milk stuff, because I know you've been taking a deep dive down the rabbit hole of milk and

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the story about raw milk versus pasteurized milk and how it became that way.

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Because for hundreds and hundreds and thousands of years, people have been eating or drinking,

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whatever you want to call it.

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I guess we're eating it or drinking it.

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I don't know what the correct term is, but milk straight out of whatever animal that you so desire.

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For my wife and I, we go for the goat milk.

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But some people prefer cow.

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There's also other animals, I guess.

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I don't know. Can you milk the cats?

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No.

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I don't know.

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You know, maybe.

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Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there are other animals, right?

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I mean, you go internationally and you're going to have different animals.

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I imagine Mongolia, it's probably, you know, I know.

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I think yaks milk is something people do as well.

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I don't know.

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But it is.

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It's a, you know, it's a tradition or tradition.

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And it's a foodstuff from, you know, as early as I could figure out.

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I mean, you've got Egyptians, you know, showing pictures of milk, you know what I mean, in hieroglyphs, et cetera.

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So, or at least it looks like a white liquid inside of a, you know, a container.

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Hard to tell, right?

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There's not really many of them left that you can just go like, hey, what is this?

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And they're like, oh, yeah.

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uh actually there's i was gonna say there aren't any but any more i'm a yeah i i don't

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i don't well this one threw me for a loop man and i'm nowhere near where i want to be in the

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research on this i think we're probably going to be doing this uh at least once more so you went

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Straight down the rabbit hole then, apparently.

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Well, you know, I didn't want to go down the rabbit hole, but one of the things that I really wanted to find out is, you know, when this change occurred, why?

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And what were the real reasons?

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And, you know, while there's some very surface level stuff that's like, oh, yeah, people got sick, it doesn't hold up, right?

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it just doesn't hold up anytime i ask myself why something happens it usually comes down to one

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reason and and that is money somehow factors into it and i'm sure you're going to let me know but

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i'm sure there's a financial gain for somebody that that wanted this to happen you know i i

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haven't gotten that far okay not yet not yet i mean there's just it's such an incredible rabbit

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hole to go down. You know, honestly, it seems, you know, to, to anyone looking at it, you would

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just think, oh yeah, well they made that decision for safety and that's it. Right. Um, but then as

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we start, you know, getting into some, some of the information that I've found and, you know,

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I'm using reputable, reputable sources, right. I'm not looking for like, you know, Joe's

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conspiracy shop.com right i'm you know harvard harvard food law school is is one of the sources

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that i'm using all right um you know so it's not again this isn't meant to be or it didn't start

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out as you know some conspiracy idea or something like that and i still don't think it is right um

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but there's always a but right well you know i mean there's some there's some

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conspiratorial crap that i've already uncovered and it's just like mind blown like what um and

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you know uh anything in the day maybe it's not a conspiracy maybe it's just an

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a fact that's before its time

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uh okay maybe that's just another name for a conspiracy anymore uh yeah so um yeah and i i

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just i've been delving into this and i i've got some contact numbers i have people i want to reach

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out to that are you know uh champion championing the right to choose what food you consume um to

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you know, uh, to allow people that freedom of choice. And especially when it comes to things

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that are whole real foods. Right. Um, now before, before we go any further in this,

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the very first thing I want to say before we even start talking about any of this,

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this is all resource information. Uh, last time I checked, I cannot post links into YouTube yet.

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something about new channel or something. And, you know, I'm not real keen on uploading an ID

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to prove my identity so that I can post a web link. That being said, we will make sure that,

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you know, we will put them up in a few areas, right? One of the areas that I think I may actually

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do is go through our website spacetomatoes.net uh and uh you know i may try and go through and do a

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quick redesign and try and do a link dump or create another page on there etc i'm not a web

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developer man so uh anyone with skills in that area comment pay me do something uh and and get

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with us. Another housekeeping note, right? We started a telegram channel. And if you want to

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get on there, it's a great platform, chat platform, you know, and we have not only our channel that we

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post the videos to and potentially comments, and I will post the links and, you know, other notes

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and everything related to this podcast, right?

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This particular episode.

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And anything we go into like that,

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I will try and make sure that we do the same there, right?

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So Telegram channel, you can also find us,

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just remember, right?

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Spotify, Apple Podcasts, iHeartRadio on X.

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You can also find us on Podbean and Podcast Addict.

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So we're trying to expand the ways that you can consume this. If you have other ideas, let us know. Anyway, big, real important statement here, right? I am not a doctor. I'm not a nutritionist. I'm not a lawyer. I don't work for any governmental agency whatsoever, right?

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everything I'm telling you here, I've sourced, I will include my sources and I'm giving you the

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information as it was presented, uh, and not trying to, you know, pull some weirdness out of

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my behind. Right. Uh, you'll see media come through, uh, throughout this podcast as I edited

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it up to show you what I was looking at. So you can see it verbatim word for word. Um, and hopefully

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we won't get in any, I don't think so. Cause this is a public forum from a public event that

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was publicly put out there, but fair use. I think you're allowed to do that.

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Yeah. I don't, I don't, you know, not my intention to, to do anything that is, you know,

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trying to take from others work. And in fact, you know, again, all of the presentations and

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everything else, uh, everything I'm capturing, I will, I will put the links in there. You will

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have access to the original source information with credit for the people. I'm not going to go

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through and credit everybody. I'm going to give you the link. You can go look at the source

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information, et cetera. So did I clear everything I wanted? This is an interesting one, right?

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So yeah, that's kind of what I've been diving into. And it got weird real quick,

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like real quick uncomfortably so yeah i don't know that much about it all i know is is i

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visited you last year and while i was up there well i didn't actually go my wife went to uh they

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have a a local farm store or around you somewhere somewhere and they were selling uh raw goat milk

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and my my or actually it was a goat milk kefir or kefir i don't know how you say it

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but my wife bought me some and I was having a little bit of a flare up with my psoriasis,

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especially on my, my arms.

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Um, but I drank that for a few days and it actually got better.

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So that's kind of what got me turned onto it.

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And, and the little bit of a peripheral reading I did on like raw milk, it, it didn't really

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give me a lot of confidence because a lot of people are against it.

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They're like, you're going to die.

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You know, it's got bacteria in it.

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There's a reason the government, you know, does the pasteurization thing.

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and you're taking your life into your own hands,

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and then I'm like, eh, people have been doing it for a long time.

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I could see you want to be trusting of the source where you're coming from.

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I don't think you want a dirty farm.

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I think you need to source everyone in place that cleanliness is one of their priorities.

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But beyond that, I do not think it's going to hurt you.

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I mean, that's just in my opinion.

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But your mileage may vary.

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so i mean if you have a if you get sick or die it's your problem not ours if you have any kind

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of medical conditions where you uh yeah where you know you maybe consult a doctor before doing it

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but they might not tell you uh it's a great idea i don't know this is just my personal experience

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they're not they're they're they're absolutely 100 not going to tell you

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that that you're going to be okay doing it right i highly doubt it okay let me take that back i'm

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to walk all that back. I'm going to say I would be absolutely shocked and amazed if, if a medical

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professional told you, yeah, go for it. You're fine. Right. And again, this is, you know,

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I can't speak for the medical professional, but I can imagine if I was in that situation, look,

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I'm just, we're just podcast hosts, right? If you, you know, I mean, there's a lot of places

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get information from. Right. Um, anyway, we, you know, I felt it, we both felt it was necessary to

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kind of have that little spiel at the front. Like, Hey, look, we're not, you know, professionals.

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We're not giving you advice here. We're not telling you what to do. What we're doing is

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talking about a subject. We're going through information that we've found. Um, now I will say

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that I am biased towards raw milk. Okay. Um, I'm not against so much pasteurized milk. Uh, I just,

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there, there are, there are a number of reasons that I prefer it. Not the least of which is

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tastes better. Um, it's, it's got a lot of active, active live enzymes and cultures in it that

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are, you know, good for your body, right? Babies drink raw milk.

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Hmm. Maybe there's a reason for that, right? We don't pasteurize mother's breast milk.

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Now, again, you're telling me, okay, well, you know, different situation. It is. I'm not going

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to go there, right? But at the same time, there's no requirement for that, right? So yeah, it's an

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interesting one. It really is.

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I mean for me I always been like my diet was not very expanse And so like when it was first suggested to me to try even the kefir which is fermented milk

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So, I mean, to me, that was like, you know, I don't want to drink fermented milk.

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I'm thinking like, you know, it's got like chunks floating around in it and stuff.

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You know, like that's the whole thing about raw milk.

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So if – I didn't know this.

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So if you leave raw milk on the counter, like unrefrigerated, it's going to turn into sour cream or some other kind of milk product that you can eat and you're not going to die.

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If you leave store-bought pasteurized milk on the counter, it's going to become rancid and moldy and you're going to die if you drink it or get very, very sick probably.

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at the very at the very least it's unappetizing and inedible so my guess is it'll come out quicker

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than it went in yeah so i mean in my mind when you know like when i first heard you know of

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fermented milk you know the kefir stuff i'm thinking like in my brain like when you leave

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milk on the counter that's what you're gonna get some chunky nasty you know like

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stuff you can't even stand the smell of which is it's that's not the case right yeah yeah no it was

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it was interesting so you know yeah man this is just so expansive and i'm like i feel so lost in

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this as well because i'm literally just scratching the surface and i've been researching the crap out

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this all week. And just to give you an idea all week, like I've probably spent six, seven hours.

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Okay. So I say all week and it's not like I'm sitting here all day. I have a job, right? I have

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to do stuff to make a living. Uh, so, but I am, you know, actively researching this stuff and,

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you know, uh, you know, let me take that back. It's gotta be more than seven hours because I've,

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I've gone through at least two or three, uh,

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hour plus things, uh, debates, presentations, et cetera.

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Wow. As well. Uh, so yeah, it's probably more like 12 hours, right?

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Impressive. Yeah. Yeah. So a few things I learned, uh,

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you're familiar with the term outbreak, right? What is it?

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Outbreak. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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outbreak like oh we had an outbreak right do you know what an outbreak is no well i mean take a

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guess take a guess the like the definition of it how do you yeah how do you actually say oh well

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this is an outbreak but that wasn't i what do you think what do you think i mean just use your gut

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right you've heard the term just like a high incidence of something happening i would say

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yeah yeah that's that was me too i was like oh my gosh this is

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an outbreak you know there's got to be thousands of people infected like in 2020 say we had an

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outbreak of some kind of virus right exactly an outbreak right you think outbreak and it

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you may hit my head lots of people affected by it right my head goes oh my gosh so many people

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An outbreak, it is considered an outbreak when two or more people are affected.

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Really?

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Two or more.

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Interesting.

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Yes.

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So you either have an incident, a solo incident, or an outbreak.

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So right off the bat, put your mindset there, right?

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Whenever you hear outbreak, it doesn't mean what your brain thinks, or at least what my brain automatically goes to, which is outbreak.

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Oh, my gosh.

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Hundreds, thousands, hundreds of millions, billions of people have been affected.

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That's what I would think, right?

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Two.

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Two.

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That's all it takes.

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Yep.

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Now, I'm not saying that's it for all outbreaks, but that's all that is required for it to be considered an outbreak.

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That is literally what an outbreak is.

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Okay.

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All right.

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So that was eyeopening.

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I mean, no, it was to me, my whole, my whole thought is an outbreak means, holy crap, we're

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screwed.

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You know what I mean?

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This is a big deal.

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Oh, it's an outbreak of E. coli.

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Yeah.

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These two dudes at it.

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Hmm.

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Okay.

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Okay. So, yeah, from there it gets even weirder, right? Let's see if I can get through some of this stuff. I'm trying to go through some of my...

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I mean, we all kind of know what we learned in elementary school or middle school, right, about Louis Pasteur.

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And that's about the extent of what I know about pasteurization.

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But it was like people were getting sick, so they heated it up, and now people don't get sick, right?

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That's it.

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That's about all I know.

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Yeah, yeah.

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so one of the things i found which was interesting and this is in a presentation again from the harvard

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food law school so the harvard school of law has different portions of their law schools right

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and this one is their food law right okay yeah this is harvard we've heard of them they seem to

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be pretty reasonably intelligent people been around for a while yeah might might consider

208
00:18:42,784 --> 00:18:49,124
them a heightened authority, right? But this is from a presentation from that.

209
00:18:50,164 --> 00:18:54,784
And I'm not saying that these are Harvard professors or anything like that. I did not

210
00:18:54,784 --> 00:19:00,644
get that far into it, right? I haven't delved into the credentials of each individuals

211
00:19:00,644 --> 00:19:08,944
in the presentation, but it was put on, promoted, and sponsored by the Harvard Food Law School.

212
00:19:08,944 --> 00:19:16,284
it is listed on the harvard site under the harvard law school site under their harvard food laws

213
00:19:16,284 --> 00:19:22,364
and it's got the presentation in there so once again this is not you know like oh yeah okay it

214
00:19:22,364 --> 00:19:27,824
was no it's it's right there right anyway uh part of the presentation they were coming across and

215
00:19:27,824 --> 00:19:33,244
one of the things i'd never even heard was around raw milk and tooth decay which is kind of

216
00:19:33,244 --> 00:19:40,304
interesting considering we just had a nifty conversation on fluoride right tooth decay

217
00:19:40,304 --> 00:19:48,964
fluoride now this was back in 1943 and uh according to the notes the person was it was

218
00:19:48,964 --> 00:19:56,084
james c thompson pasteurized milk a national menace the kingston chronicle chronicle from

219
00:19:56,084 --> 00:20:04,704
Edinburgh, Scotland, 1943, comma five. I'm guessing episode five, month five. I'm not positive.

220
00:20:04,704 --> 00:20:12,524
The statement is Dr. Evelyn Sprosson of the London hospital in and a quotation in certain

221
00:20:12,524 --> 00:20:19,244
institutions, children who were brought up on raw milk had perfect teeth and no decay.

222
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the result is so striking and unusual that it will undoubtedly be made the subject of further inquiry

223
00:20:27,184 --> 00:20:33,724
right that's an interesting one it's not not a thing that i had thought about but

224
00:20:33,724 --> 00:20:43,784
as a benefit of raw milk right i mean had you thought about teeth no i no i mean i i had always

225
00:20:43,784 --> 00:20:48,184
heard that you know if you if a baby sleeps with like a bottle in his mouth or something that their

226
00:20:48,184 --> 00:20:53,844
teeth can decay because there's high sugar content in milk, but I didn't hear that it could

227
00:20:53,844 --> 00:21:00,604
help your teeth at all. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't either. So there you go. There's another portion.

228
00:21:01,824 --> 00:21:08,584
Now, here's the interesting thing is they were going to go on. I got to go look at my notes again

229
00:21:08,584 --> 00:21:15,864
because there's just so much and do a study on tooth decay. However, that study was halted.

230
00:21:15,864 --> 00:21:23,584
hmm okay the reason it was halted there was a magazine magazine i have no idea if they're still

231
00:21:23,584 --> 00:21:32,524
in publication or not but it was the coronet magazine and this was may 1945 okay and it was

232
00:21:32,524 --> 00:21:39,024
an article in that magazine and it said it was a seemingly factual article about a town called

233
00:21:39,024 --> 00:21:43,644
Crossroads USA, which doesn't exist.

234
00:21:43,724 --> 00:21:43,904
Yes.

235
00:21:43,904 --> 00:21:45,264
I was going to say it sounds made up.

236
00:21:45,804 --> 00:21:46,324
Yeah.

237
00:21:46,404 --> 00:21:53,804
Well, it was about a town called Crossroads USA does not exist where many died from undulant

238
00:21:53,804 --> 00:21:57,764
fever contracted by raw milk or from raw milk.

239
00:21:57,844 --> 00:21:58,784
Do they have an outbreak there?

240
00:21:59,584 --> 00:22:00,764
Well, here's the whole problem.

241
00:22:00,764 --> 00:22:08,844
Not only is Crossroads USA fictional, there was no outbreak of undulant fever.

242
00:22:09,024 --> 00:22:14,584
So that stopped the study on tooth decay.

243
00:22:14,944 --> 00:22:20,024
And this is where I started to go, hmm, this is in the mid 1940s.

244
00:22:22,424 --> 00:22:23,144
What?

245
00:22:25,284 --> 00:22:25,984
Yeah.

246
00:22:26,084 --> 00:22:26,304
Okay.

247
00:22:26,304 --> 00:22:35,944
So in the Journal of Food Protection, Volume 74, Number 11, 2011, 2011, pages 1814.

248
00:22:36,264 --> 00:22:40,144
That is 1814 through 1832.

249
00:22:40,704 --> 00:22:54,204
One of the things that is stated in there is overall, the results of this review revealed that high quality scientific evidence to support potential benefits of raw milk consumption

250
00:22:54,204 --> 00:23:01,664
is generally lacking and that the public should interpret any claims with caution.

251
00:23:02,224 --> 00:23:02,984
All right.

252
00:23:03,464 --> 00:23:06,564
So now I want you to take that statement and I want you to mirror,

253
00:23:06,824 --> 00:23:09,984
just combine that with what I just told you.

254
00:23:11,564 --> 00:23:12,244
Right.

255
00:23:12,244 --> 00:23:16,644
They found teeth in children drinking raw milk.

256
00:23:16,784 --> 00:23:18,524
They were going to do a study.

257
00:23:18,524 --> 00:23:44,884
Suddenly a magazine releases a hit piece on a town that doesn't exist for a problem that didn't occur. Now, you know, not saying that, you know, undulant fever hasn't ever been something that has occurred. But as of right now, I have not found evidence of that. Although it is peppered in things. There is no link to this being a documented case that I've found yet.

258
00:23:44,884 --> 00:23:51,604
okay i'm going to keep looking because i do want to see where the truth in things is right but what

259
00:23:51,604 --> 00:24:03,884
i can tell you is to date there are like very very very few uh studies done on raw milk period

260
00:24:03,884 --> 00:24:12,964
almost all of the studies are are done on pasteurized milk showing how it's it's fine

261
00:24:12,964 --> 00:24:21,064
you know it's totally good right they don't all they do is tend to bias against everything else

262
00:24:21,064 --> 00:24:27,224
and why pasteurized is better so there's nothing in there that goes through and looks at raw milk

263
00:24:27,224 --> 00:24:32,984
and says here are the benefits of raw milk here are the risks here you know everything else

264
00:24:32,984 --> 00:24:39,164
and and really lays out what this means you know what is raw milk is it you know it how

265
00:24:39,164 --> 00:24:46,244
how substantially different is it right um and one thing that i found as well and i do have

266
00:24:46,244 --> 00:24:57,224
follow-ups on this as well is a thing on some of the enzymes uh and this is pretty in in this is

267
00:24:57,224 --> 00:25:02,944
pretty interesting right and this is about the destruction of built-in safety systems by

268
00:25:02,944 --> 00:25:10,084
pasteurization. And this is cited, uh, this sites, uh, scientific American from December,

269
00:25:10,084 --> 00:25:21,744
1995, as well as the Lancet from 17th of November, 1984. Uh, and what it has here is in it,

270
00:25:21,744 --> 00:25:29,604
it measures out breast milk, raw milk, and then pasteurized UHT and infant formula. Okay.

271
00:25:29,604 --> 00:25:56,184
In this, we've got the components, B lymphocytes, macrophages, neutrophils, lymphocytes, IgA, IgG antibodies, B12 binding protein, bifidus factor, medium chain fatty acids, fibronectin, gamma interferon, lactoferrin,

272
00:25:56,184 --> 00:26:08,389
ferrin lactoperoxidase lysozyme mucin

273
00:26:08,489 --> 00:26:09,709
Say that four times fast.

274
00:26:10,229 --> 00:26:15,349
Yeah, no thanks. Hormones and growth factors. I'm not even certain what hormones and growth

275
00:26:15,349 --> 00:26:23,749
factors are, but I would imagine they're things related to hormonal regulation and growth of

276
00:26:23,749 --> 00:26:29,809
you know, cells, et cetera, right? It's my imagination. I just said, it's my imagination.

277
00:26:30,549 --> 00:26:35,329
Anyway, in each of the case, in the breast milk column and the raw milk column, they are all

278
00:26:35,329 --> 00:26:49,429
active. In the pasteurized milk, you have, so you have most of them inactivated and some reduced,

279
00:26:49,429 --> 00:26:57,109
and the UHT milk, the ultra high temp or what we're calling ultra pasteurized, which is a European

280
00:26:57,109 --> 00:27:04,289
thing for a while. Ultra high, well, I don't know that they're the same actually, but in another

281
00:27:04,289 --> 00:27:10,409
point of research I need to do. And as well in that one, almost all of them, only three of them,

282
00:27:10,409 --> 00:27:18,889
the hormones, the mucin and the medium chain fatty acids are reduced, but not inactivated.

283
00:27:18,889 --> 00:27:25,869
and then in infant formula the only thing that is reduced is medium chain fatty acids everything

284
00:27:25,869 --> 00:27:33,449
else is inactivated some of these i recognize right off the bat right as things that your body

285
00:27:33,449 --> 00:27:40,809
does want you need right i'm not again a doctor i'm not a medical professional but you know it is

286
00:27:40,809 --> 00:27:47,469
worth looking at like things like b12 binding protein uh that's that's not a bad thing right

287
00:27:47,469 --> 00:28:06,849
Most of these things, in fact, are all around gut health and, you know, general cellular health, etc., right? So, you know, it starts to make you wonder, why this, right?

288
00:28:06,849 --> 00:28:18,769
And so the first thing you come to is some statements, which are, I guess for me, a little bit bizarre, right?

289
00:28:20,889 --> 00:28:21,589
All right.

290
00:28:21,749 --> 00:28:23,789
And this leads me to the next piece.

291
00:28:23,849 --> 00:28:26,429
And this was a statement made.

292
00:28:26,429 --> 00:28:41,589
So this is John F. Sheehan, Director of Division of Plant and Dairy Food Safety, Office of Food Safety, Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition, United States Food and Drug Administration.

293
00:28:41,709 --> 00:28:43,569
Can you imagine having to put that on a business card?

294
00:28:44,529 --> 00:28:47,609
The backside of the business card just for like that.

295
00:28:47,609 --> 00:28:57,229
And this is before the Health and Government Operations Committee for the Maryland House of Delegates, March 15th of 2007.

296
00:28:57,229 --> 00:29:07,569
All right. This is the statement they made. Raw milk should not be consumed by anyone at any time for any reason.

297
00:29:08,249 --> 00:29:16,869
Let me repeat that. Raw milk should not be consumed by anyone at any time for any reason.

298
00:29:17,609 --> 00:29:32,929
FDA's opinion in this matter is entirely consistent with that of the American Medical Association, which holds as policy the position that all milk sold for human consumption should be required to be pasteurized.

299
00:29:32,929 --> 00:29:46,569
And this is referenced as H-150.980, milk and human health. Not sure what that reference is to. I may have zoned out a little bit during this part of the presentation.

300
00:29:46,569 --> 00:29:52,409
So you look at that statement and you go, hmm, really?

301
00:29:53,549 --> 00:30:04,389
No one at any time for any reason should ever do this, which makes you start to go, wow, this stuff must be dangerous, right?

302
00:30:05,009 --> 00:30:09,509
Well, you would think because when you look it up online, I'm sure most people would Google it.

303
00:30:09,509 --> 00:30:19,569
That's probably one of the things that comes up, and that's probably the reason why these people are parroting that when people inquire about the raw milk situation.

304
00:30:19,569 --> 00:30:24,089
They just regurgitate that statement that, you know, absolutely not.

305
00:30:24,169 --> 00:30:25,349
You shouldn't eat it.

306
00:30:25,409 --> 00:30:26,449
You shouldn't consume it.

307
00:30:26,509 --> 00:30:27,629
It's going to kill you.

308
00:30:27,989 --> 00:30:33,909
Like, so what they have for proof or evidence of why, they really can't say.

309
00:30:33,909 --> 00:30:44,529
yeah so the the the proof is essentially because we said so outbreak information from

310
00:30:44,529 --> 00:30:52,689
long time ago really when did we start pasteurizing everything do you know the date on that stuff

311
00:30:52,689 --> 00:31:00,289
oh i don't have the exact date but i think the the mandates came in in the late 80s

312
00:31:00,289 --> 00:31:08,129
oh really i think that was it but i'll have again not there yet i i got stuck on things like

313
00:31:08,129 --> 00:31:15,149
now why would you say something like that i mean honestly this is this is akin to the

314
00:31:15,149 --> 00:31:22,749
you know schedule one interpretation of marijuana not valid for any medical use just

315
00:31:22,749 --> 00:31:30,989
it's just you know terrible stuff to cocaine isn't a schedule one it's schedule two that's

316
00:31:30,989 --> 00:31:37,709
crazy right what what this is the uh the same government giving us the food pyramid telling

317
00:31:37,709 --> 00:31:46,049
us that uh most of our diet should come comprised of grains right okay yeah and so those are the

318
00:31:46,049 --> 00:31:52,509
kinds of things where okay look yeah maybe i am conspiracy minded in general or let's let's just

319
00:31:52,509 --> 00:31:59,109
take it to the realist, the real place that it is. It's not that I'm conspiracy minded. I would

320
00:31:59,109 --> 00:32:04,909
love for there not to be any conspiracies in the world. I really would. I'm interested

321
00:32:04,909 --> 00:32:15,249
and I am highly distrustful of the people that put out legislation about how we should live our

322
00:32:15,249 --> 00:32:21,169
lives. And I think everyone should be. I think if you are trusting of these entities, you've made a

323
00:32:21,169 --> 00:32:29,449
very bad mistake somewhere in your life. And you really need to rethink this. Okay. Now, that being

324
00:32:29,449 --> 00:32:35,069
said, the first thing that comes to mind after I'm starting to go through all this stuff is, well,

325
00:32:36,109 --> 00:32:41,429
this stuff's got to be killing people left and right. Right. And I'm drinking it. I'm going to,

326
00:32:41,429 --> 00:32:46,129
you know, am I going to die? I mean, I'm going to die dead. I'm not sick. I've never been or,

327
00:32:46,129 --> 00:32:56,889
or you know not had an issue right but wow like no time ever never nobody should ever ever touch

328
00:32:56,889 --> 00:33:04,109
this stuff it's so bad that that statement right there is kind of like yeah don't drink bleach

329
00:33:04,109 --> 00:33:11,169
nobody ever at any time should ever drink bleach yeah i'm gonna agree like household bleach in a

330
00:33:11,169 --> 00:33:18,249
container yeah don't freaking drink it ever for anything any reason period just don't okay that

331
00:33:18,249 --> 00:33:25,569
i'm gonna stand behind why well that's pretty freaking obvious but now i start hearing this

332
00:33:25,569 --> 00:33:31,269
stuff and it's from our government and they're telling us oh this you know this is the most

333
00:33:31,269 --> 00:33:40,129
problematic thing ever to occur and uh you know what's what's my brain do really

334
00:33:40,129 --> 00:33:46,809
gotta be a lot of people that have been fucked messed up with this stuff right excuse my language

335
00:33:46,809 --> 00:33:55,049
there now the one thing i will caveat on this there are a lot less people that do this with

336
00:33:55,049 --> 00:34:04,249
raw milk that we know of okay and that is a very very important part one of the things is very hard

337
00:34:04,249 --> 00:34:11,309
to determine when it comes to things like raw milk, which is banned. Well, not necessarily.

338
00:34:11,488 --> 00:34:16,569
It's banned for interstate commerce because the federal government cannot regulate what you sell

339
00:34:16,569 --> 00:34:23,929
inside of your state, right? Well, unless it's federally prohibited, right? But in this case,

340
00:34:24,109 --> 00:34:29,289
it's milk and the states have the right to make up their own. So there are states out there with

341
00:34:29,289 --> 00:34:36,069
lenient laws, regulations they put in place to test and make sure it's clean and probably labels

342
00:34:36,069 --> 00:34:40,829
that say, if you drink this, you're going to die. It is not our fault. So go away, please.

343
00:34:41,869 --> 00:34:50,829
But that being said, I started just thinking about life in general, right? Where else do I

344
00:34:50,829 --> 00:34:59,789
hear stuff like this and it's it's not often you hear that strong and firm of a stance against food

345
00:34:59,789 --> 00:35:07,029
right so i started thinking about it and the first thing that comes to mind is warning

346
00:35:07,029 --> 00:35:16,949
consuming meats that are raw or undercooked maybe right and you see these on menus

347
00:35:16,949 --> 00:35:25,008
You go to a restaurant, you're like, oh, raw or undercooked meat, dangerous, okay.

348
00:35:26,249 --> 00:35:27,969
But you can order it, right?

349
00:35:28,929 --> 00:35:29,609
Yeah.

350
00:35:30,049 --> 00:35:40,889
And more people get sick and or die and or are hospitalized from eating raw meats than raw milk.

351
00:35:41,349 --> 00:35:43,169
But let's take it a step further.

352
00:35:43,169 --> 00:35:48,069
What about for the vegetarians and the vegans out there and, you know, happy land?

353
00:35:48,949 --> 00:35:52,289
Let's go where they are because they're probably not eating meat, right?

354
00:35:52,409 --> 00:35:53,769
So it doesn't even apply.

355
00:35:54,049 --> 00:35:55,189
Why would I care about that?

356
00:35:55,789 --> 00:35:57,809
You know, I'm not going to drink raw milk.

357
00:35:57,929 --> 00:36:00,049
I'm going to be vegan, so I don't care about this anyway.

358
00:36:00,469 --> 00:36:01,869
But if I'm vegetarian, maybe.

359
00:36:04,389 --> 00:36:06,229
Just to give you some numbers, okay?

360
00:36:06,609 --> 00:36:11,089
Raw milk, the estimated, and this is estimated.

361
00:36:11,089 --> 00:36:14,049
And again, it's not legal in a lot of places.

362
00:36:14,689 --> 00:36:21,349
So when something's not legal, people have a very strong urge not to self-report, right?

363
00:36:21,729 --> 00:36:30,409
So what they know is there's 10 million people, 10 million people that drink raw milk or consume raw milk.

364
00:36:31,449 --> 00:36:35,829
I don't know, maybe they're snorting it or something, you know, injecting raw milk.

365
00:36:36,089 --> 00:36:38,149
But I think you just drank it.

366
00:36:38,149 --> 00:36:41,749
They buy it for the cat or dog, right?

367
00:36:42,549 --> 00:36:43,069
Legally.

368
00:36:44,229 --> 00:36:48,549
You can buy it for your pets, yes, which I do.

369
00:36:50,508 --> 00:36:53,069
And then I take it home and I give it to my pets.

370
00:36:54,569 --> 00:36:54,929
Mm-hmm.

371
00:36:54,929 --> 00:36:55,929
Mm-hmm.

372
00:36:55,929 --> 00:37:11,289
so anyway um raw milk equates it comes out to something uh around

373
00:37:11,289 --> 00:37:19,129
one-tenth one-tenth of the estimated illnesses

374
00:37:19,129 --> 00:37:30,349
from raw spinach it comes down to one tenth of the estimated deaths from raw spinach

375
00:37:30,349 --> 00:37:38,049
okay now again there's less people consuming but if you took that 10 and made it a hundred million

376
00:37:38,049 --> 00:37:44,889
saying one in three people in the entire of the use us was consuming raw milk you'd be looking at

377
00:37:44,889 --> 00:37:50,329
the same numbers as raw spinach but there's not even a freaking warning label on spinach right

378
00:37:50,329 --> 00:37:59,569
i mean do you did you know raw spinach has caused 125 000 reported illnesses so they were bad enough

379
00:37:59,569 --> 00:38:06,049
that someone reported them in the last 25 years i did not know it was that many i have seen recalls

380
00:38:06,049 --> 00:38:12,749
on certain uh you know things they listeria and e coli and whatever else you know on this produce

381
00:38:12,749 --> 00:38:16,449
Which is another weird thing.

382
00:38:16,989 --> 00:38:21,529
You know what two of the primary reasons they ban raw milk?

383
00:38:22,149 --> 00:38:25,109
They might have Listeria or E. coli.

384
00:38:25,269 --> 00:38:26,029
Really?

385
00:38:27,329 --> 00:38:28,709
Yes, really.

386
00:38:29,589 --> 00:38:34,729
There are others, but it's a pretty small list.

387
00:38:34,729 --> 00:38:41,149
And E. coli and Listeria are two.

388
00:38:41,149 --> 00:38:46,789
then they're the same as spinach right and i would i would guess that it's probably from the

389
00:38:46,789 --> 00:38:51,969
same causes which would be unsanitary conditions that the stuff is being produced in you know

390
00:38:51,969 --> 00:38:57,629
farm animals by nature they're you know in the mud getting dirty you know rolling around in their own

391
00:38:57,629 --> 00:39:09,773
poop at points and and if you don clean them before you milk them i sure that some of that stuff can transfer or even in the you know the containerization part you know putting it in the bottles and stuff

392
00:39:09,893 --> 00:39:12,273
If people don't use caution with that.

393
00:39:12,273 --> 00:39:17,153
So, I mean, for me, I kind of want to know where it's coming from.

394
00:39:17,273 --> 00:39:24,973
So, like, I visit the farm personally where I get it from and I observe the conditions that it is produced in.

395
00:39:24,973 --> 00:39:32,353
And if you go to one of these places and they do not allow you to observe those conditions, then I would probably pass on it.

396
00:39:32,953 --> 00:39:33,473
Bye.

397
00:39:34,153 --> 00:39:34,933
I'm out.

398
00:39:35,273 --> 00:39:35,573
Right.

399
00:39:35,773 --> 00:39:36,193
Sorry.

400
00:39:36,553 --> 00:39:36,973
Right.

401
00:39:36,973 --> 00:39:37,273
Yeah.

402
00:39:37,373 --> 00:39:50,833
And the other test is, look, any farmer that has a decent operation that wants to sell you things is likely to be very amenable to a farm visit.

403
00:39:51,033 --> 00:39:51,433
Right.

404
00:39:51,433 --> 00:40:09,053
They may not be able to give you a full farm tour and all that stuff, but if you said, hey, would you mind if I came by? I'll hang back. I'll be out of the way. Just kind of want to see your operation. I'd like to learn a little bit about it. I haven't met anyone that said no. So that's an important part.

405
00:40:09,053 --> 00:40:13,113
The other part is, you know, hey, look, I buy this stuff for my pets, right?

406
00:40:14,793 --> 00:40:20,633
And one of the first questions I ask is, do you and your family drink this?

407
00:40:20,713 --> 00:40:21,333
Do you have children?

408
00:40:21,493 --> 00:40:22,313
Do they drink this?

409
00:40:23,213 --> 00:40:25,173
And you know what the answer invariably is?

410
00:40:26,133 --> 00:40:26,773
Oh, yeah.

411
00:40:29,173 --> 00:40:29,613
Okay.

412
00:40:30,453 --> 00:40:37,933
That's, you know, this is a person that's trusting their own children, and they raise the animals, and they're trusting their own lives, right?

413
00:40:37,933 --> 00:40:38,673
Their own self.

414
00:40:39,053 --> 00:40:40,893
So they believe in this product.

415
00:40:41,393 --> 00:40:41,873
Okay.

416
00:40:42,053 --> 00:40:43,833
That's a good selling point for me.

417
00:40:44,033 --> 00:40:49,653
Again, make your own decisions, but I would highly urge farm visit and talk to the people.

418
00:40:49,913 --> 00:41:04,793
Just talk to them, you know, just keep in mind that, you know, when you're ordering this stuff from these people and you're ordering it for your pets, that you, you know, your safety of your pets should be as important to you as your children.

419
00:41:04,893 --> 00:41:05,353
Right.

420
00:41:05,573 --> 00:41:05,973
Absolutely.

421
00:41:06,233 --> 00:41:06,513
It is to me.

422
00:41:06,873 --> 00:41:07,313
Right.

423
00:41:07,313 --> 00:41:10,273
So treat it as such.

424
00:41:11,253 --> 00:41:17,173
I mean, on the flip side, nobody's probably ever visited where they get their store milk from.

425
00:41:18,233 --> 00:41:23,613
And you probably wouldn't be happy with what you saw when you went there.

426
00:41:25,173 --> 00:41:26,813
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

427
00:41:28,093 --> 00:41:30,333
It's absolutely insane.

428
00:41:30,333 --> 00:41:38,433
especially in a high production you know a facility like that when when you know the cost

429
00:41:38,433 --> 00:41:44,193
is is a big factor and they're trying to move as many of these animals as possible probably probably

430
00:41:44,193 --> 00:41:50,373
you know i'm sure they have some kind of sanitary you know procedure but you know speed is is probably

431
00:41:50,373 --> 00:41:56,893
more paramount than the than the quality but i i don't know i mean i i've seen some videos of you

432
00:41:56,893 --> 00:42:01,713
know guys doing the hoof trimming in these facilities and it's it's not like you know

433
00:42:01,713 --> 00:42:09,533
it's not like a hospital in there it's a pretty dirty nasty place let me let me let me be fair

434
00:42:09,533 --> 00:42:15,733
on that one right i mean hoof trimming is is a vastly different thing right and we trim our

435
00:42:15,733 --> 00:42:22,073
our we used to trim our horses hooves on on our dirt barn floor so you're not getting the sanitary

436
00:42:22,073 --> 00:42:28,513
environment right right that being said i don't want to disparage anyone right so i you know

437
00:42:28,513 --> 00:42:37,153
benefit of the doubt but i i too have seen you know video footage i've been to farms where i i

438
00:42:37,153 --> 00:42:43,313
wouldn't trust anything that came off that farm personally you know so it's a good it's a good

439
00:42:43,313 --> 00:42:49,313
question you you you know if you're sitting there going oh this is crazy you know why do you

440
00:42:49,313 --> 00:43:00,013
wholeheartedly and totally like just blindly believe the milk that's on the shelf is okay

441
00:43:00,013 --> 00:43:08,093
what what is it that makes you feel is it because the government said so right that that that and

442
00:43:08,093 --> 00:43:17,033
and if so you know i i don't want to cause any kind of like you know glitch to occur for you

443
00:43:17,033 --> 00:43:21,353
but at the same time, maybe you should question that. Maybe you should at least question that,

444
00:43:21,433 --> 00:43:26,933
right? I'm not saying, you know, change your mindset or anything else, but, but maybe go back

445
00:43:26,933 --> 00:43:32,853
to like, you know, just question it. Like, like put yourself through the questions of, of why,

446
00:43:33,653 --> 00:43:39,353
you know, why, why is this safer? What makes this safer than the farm I can go visit and talk to

447
00:43:39,353 --> 00:43:45,313
that is literally feeding their own children with the product they're creating. Uh, and that's not

448
00:43:45,313 --> 00:43:50,253
okay. But this factory farm that I can't get, I can't, you can't even get on the property.

449
00:43:50,253 --> 00:43:56,333
They wouldn't even let you near their operation period. They won't. And in fact, part of that is

450
00:43:56,333 --> 00:44:03,173
government regulations, right? You need to go through all your, your, uh, biosafety training

451
00:44:03,173 --> 00:44:08,833
and everything else to be able to go on these things right now. You know, I am not saying you

452
00:44:08,833 --> 00:44:13,633
can't, you probably could with the right, you know, work and everything else, but they're going

453
00:44:13,633 --> 00:44:17,413
to make you go through a bunch of biosafety protocols and everything else they're not just

454
00:44:17,413 --> 00:44:22,633
going to allow you to walk up and see what's going on right and i'm not saying that you know regular

455
00:44:22,633 --> 00:44:29,073
farmer doesn't have those in place they do but you can observe from a distance there and they won't

456
00:44:29,073 --> 00:44:35,433
they won't be like no you know you can't whereas most factory farms would be like a hell no no

457
00:44:35,433 --> 00:44:41,193
we're not we're not open to people right right i mean i'm sure there's some of that you know

458
00:44:41,193 --> 00:44:45,053
as a liability they don't want people getting hurt on their property but you know the other part of it

459
00:44:45,053 --> 00:44:53,453
is it is you know it is it is liability it's regulation it's it's you know biosecurity right

460
00:44:53,453 --> 00:44:59,693
they have to be you know secure in their product and their stuff and part of it is through is

461
00:44:59,693 --> 00:45:04,793
because they don't want bad press they've done that before they opened up and next thing you

462
00:45:04,793 --> 00:45:10,713
know you've got documentary films coming from Michael Moore on the factory farming and you know

463
00:45:10,713 --> 00:45:24,913
These guys take a hit. This is their livelihood. So it's not just as simple as, oh, well, because of government regulations. No, some of it has to do with they've been exposed by people being on their farms before.

464
00:45:24,913 --> 00:45:34,173
so you know there is that and there's you know a known issue on on large farms and i'm not saying

465
00:45:34,173 --> 00:45:39,993
that it's a prevalent issue i'm not saying that it's even an issue that is even you know in every

466
00:45:39,993 --> 00:45:47,173
state across all of these large farms but there there is a known issue of animal abuse going on

467
00:45:47,173 --> 00:45:54,153
as well uh you know so those are the other things you know they most of those farms they want nothing

468
00:45:54,153 --> 00:45:59,613
do with that because that's just bad publicity and next thing you know they're you know tanking

469
00:45:59,613 --> 00:46:06,613
and going bankrupt and losing their farm right right so those are the bigger the bigger corporate

470
00:46:06,613 --> 00:46:13,213
conglomerations i would i would assume you know that yeah very very very large companies yeah

471
00:46:13,213 --> 00:46:18,313
well it does yeah exactly but it doesn't even have to be a large farm

472
00:46:18,313 --> 00:46:25,113
right so when you see these chicken houses right and you go by one thing i think a lot of people

473
00:46:25,113 --> 00:46:32,213
don't understand is that's not the farmers chicken houses right no those are tyson food corp those

474
00:46:32,213 --> 00:46:39,273
are pilgrim food corp those are these guys come in the farmer signs a loan and basically repays

475
00:46:39,273 --> 00:46:45,833
through operations over time until they own that and what they typically do is once they get to a

476
00:46:45,833 --> 00:46:49,633
point where they've paid off enough and they're, they're in good shape and they're making money,

477
00:46:49,713 --> 00:46:54,213
a little bit of money is they'll do another one for another chicken house. And so you'll see a

478
00:46:54,213 --> 00:46:59,393
farmer have one big bro, you know, chicken house. And then maybe a few years later, you'll see

479
00:46:59,393 --> 00:47:04,633
another one. And then maybe, you know, a couple of years later, you'll see another two come in,

480
00:47:04,753 --> 00:47:09,873
you know, and, and usually I haven't seen many of them around here, at least that are more than

481
00:47:09,873 --> 00:47:12,573
five or six of them on a single property.

482
00:47:14,033 --> 00:47:18,013
That doesn't mean they don't exist, but that's kind of how that operates.

483
00:47:18,213 --> 00:47:21,513
So these are family farms that have grown.

484
00:47:21,833 --> 00:47:27,633
They're in the corporate world because they've essentially signed up with a corporate conglomerate

485
00:47:27,633 --> 00:47:33,093
type of a situation, and they help fund infrastructure, and they help fund.

486
00:47:33,413 --> 00:47:35,753
It's kind of like setting up a franchise, right?

487
00:47:35,753 --> 00:47:43,233
so you've got the name brand you've got the sales avenue you've got you know a plan you've got the

488
00:47:43,233 --> 00:47:49,453
processes the biosecurity is laid out you know exactly how it's built what's inside it how it

489
00:47:49,453 --> 00:47:54,853
comes everything is laid out for you right so you know not a bad deal for a farmer

490
00:47:54,853 --> 00:48:03,573
yeah i've been to one of those facilities before it i i don't think it would be enjoyable to live

491
00:48:03,573 --> 00:48:10,553
been one is a chicken but that's that's neither here nor there uh yeah i i i was delivering uh

492
00:48:10,553 --> 00:48:16,733
some concrete out to to a place uh one of those you know long chicken building things and

493
00:48:16,733 --> 00:48:23,913
it was actually pretty miserable that the the space that they kind of crammed them into and

494
00:48:23,913 --> 00:48:30,073
the the flies the flies were horrible or i couldn't even roll the windows down to the on

495
00:48:30,073 --> 00:48:34,373
the truck because if you did there would be a hundred flies in there within a matter of seconds

496
00:48:34,373 --> 00:48:41,253
oh yeah yeah and the smell flies the smell yeah well and part of that is the density

497
00:48:41,253 --> 00:48:48,553
you've got a very dense cohabitation uh you've got you know obviously manure when things are that

498
00:48:48,553 --> 00:48:53,633
dense right there's no way to get around that you don't see a lot of manure i mean there's manure

499
00:48:53,633 --> 00:48:58,313
in our pastures you don't see a lot of manure there because we have enough pasture space for

500
00:48:58,313 --> 00:49:07,433
the animals excuse me so yeah and and we use things these little uh they're basically wasps

501
00:49:07,433 --> 00:49:14,093
but they're tiny they're they're like you know the size of a gnat literally they can't hurt you

502
00:49:14,093 --> 00:49:20,393
they can't do anything to you so no no sweat what they do is they go find the larvae of the the

503
00:49:20,393 --> 00:49:27,033
flies and then they attack them right and so we we get these things called fly predators is what

504
00:49:27,033 --> 00:49:33,733
they're called fly predators i don't know what the scientific name of those are i i've seen it i i've

505
00:49:33,733 --> 00:49:39,973
but it's not a name that i've remembered um but we set those out and basically as they hatch they

506
00:49:39,973 --> 00:49:47,513
just go out find the larvae and you know basically stop the fly population from reproducing so it's

507
00:49:47,513 --> 00:49:53,293
been a huge difference but yeah that's another problem right nice but i mean their whole reason

508
00:49:53,293 --> 00:49:55,893
for those farms is how you can get a what four dollar

509
00:49:55,893 --> 00:50:01,673
foroster at a costco or or sam's club i don't think there'd be any other way to

510
00:50:01,673 --> 00:50:05,713
do that no unless you're going that dense and

511
00:50:05,713 --> 00:50:09,413
that you know that many uh there there isn't really a way to do

512
00:50:09,413 --> 00:50:13,293
that on the flip side you know that's that's where government

513
00:50:13,293 --> 00:50:17,233
you know subsidies start to come in and stuff like this like the most recent

514
00:50:17,233 --> 00:50:21,373
bird flu thing right and they just cull

515
00:50:21,373 --> 00:50:28,633
entire farms, not just a chicken house. I mean, sometimes it's just the house, but quite typically

516
00:50:28,633 --> 00:50:34,253
they'll call the whole farm. And one of the ways they do this, I'm not saying this is how they do

517
00:50:34,253 --> 00:50:40,633
it all the time, but one of the ways they do this is they flood that entire environment with foam

518
00:50:40,633 --> 00:50:49,733
and suffocate all the chickens. Now, to give you an idea, these chickens are in very little space

519
00:50:49,733 --> 00:50:55,513
to themselves and they're in one of those houses so they are stacked in there and then you see

520
00:50:55,513 --> 00:51:00,773
trucks full of carcasses and they take them to the dump and dump them

521
00:51:00,773 --> 00:51:08,873
it's pretty interesting yeah well whatever you do don't don't look up uh how expiration date

522
00:51:08,873 --> 00:51:17,393
started in the yeah so another interesting thing and you kind of alluded to this in the beginning

523
00:51:17,393 --> 00:51:23,873
right is uh you know one of the presentations was was talking about uh you know uh protection

524
00:51:23,873 --> 00:51:31,533
raw milk offers people and the the title the the header on it is raw milk protects against asthma

525
00:51:31,533 --> 00:51:37,893
and allergies really um four european studies have all given the same results drinking raw

526
00:51:37,893 --> 00:51:46,273
milk is highly protective against asthma allergies and eczema children all right and this is in

527
00:51:46,273 --> 00:51:52,413
Lancet 2001, October 6th, I believe,

528
00:51:53,613 --> 00:51:58,613
as well as in J allergy synimmunol in 2006, January,

529
00:52:02,213 --> 00:52:04,973
as well as in clinical and experimental allergy

530
00:52:05,002 --> 00:52:15,462
2007 may as well as in the journal of allergy and clinical immunology online august 29 to 2011

531
00:52:15,462 --> 00:52:22,622
most recent study showed that boiling the milk removed the perfect the protective effect these

532
00:52:22,622 --> 00:52:27,722
findings dovetail with numerous reports we have received of children recovering from asthma

533
00:52:27,722 --> 00:52:36,642
allergies and eczema when consuming raw milk asthma kills around 5,500 people every year

534
00:52:36,642 --> 00:52:45,742
okay and the solution to the milk problem the milk problem was solved predominantly by outlawing

535
00:52:45,742 --> 00:52:53,242
inner city swill dairies right and these are again places that just unsanitary they're just

536
00:52:53,242 --> 00:53:00,322
you know, basically creating the dregs of milk, uh, improved hygiene, right. We've learned a lot,

537
00:53:00,322 --> 00:53:08,542
right. Uh, a lot of the, the, you know, outbreaks we've seen of other things, uh, come down to

538
00:53:08,542 --> 00:53:13,642
sanitary conditions, like people not washing their freaking hands. Oh man. Don't even get me started

539
00:53:13,642 --> 00:53:20,402
on that. It, it, dude, it, it, every time, like, so like normally when we go to Sam's club, we,

540
00:53:20,402 --> 00:53:21,222
we fill up with,

541
00:53:21,322 --> 00:53:24,642
with gas before we go in there and I'm like a hand washer.

542
00:53:24,742 --> 00:53:26,182
It was just one of my things.

543
00:53:26,182 --> 00:53:27,082
So I'll go in the bathroom,

544
00:53:27,182 --> 00:53:27,702
wash my hands.

545
00:53:27,822 --> 00:53:31,582
It amazes me every time people coming out of the stall,

546
00:53:31,842 --> 00:53:32,822
coming off of the urinal,

547
00:53:33,022 --> 00:53:33,222
dude,

548
00:53:33,302 --> 00:53:34,502
right out the door.

549
00:53:34,502 --> 00:53:34,782
It,

550
00:53:34,782 --> 00:53:35,402
it,

551
00:53:35,402 --> 00:53:36,662
so like,

552
00:53:36,822 --> 00:53:37,822
I'm not a handshaker.

553
00:53:37,942 --> 00:53:38,362
I don't,

554
00:53:38,462 --> 00:53:38,882
I don't really,

555
00:53:38,982 --> 00:53:40,202
unless I know you,

556
00:53:40,442 --> 00:53:42,302
I don't probably hug you,

557
00:53:42,422 --> 00:53:43,482
but they would like,

558
00:53:43,522 --> 00:53:43,842
and then,

559
00:53:43,842 --> 00:53:44,442
you know,

560
00:53:44,442 --> 00:53:46,082
like I'm not being unfriendly.

561
00:53:46,602 --> 00:53:47,842
I shake your hand.

562
00:53:48,282 --> 00:53:48,642
Yeah.

563
00:53:48,642 --> 00:53:49,962
I'm not being unfriendly.

564
00:53:49,962 --> 00:53:51,842
It's like, it's, it's gross, man.

565
00:53:52,802 --> 00:53:56,302
I just can't believe that many people just don't care.

566
00:53:57,402 --> 00:53:58,962
Well, and it's worse.

567
00:53:59,122 --> 00:54:03,322
What I was referencing was more along the, the, the lines of, you know,

568
00:54:03,382 --> 00:54:05,602
viral outbreaks that have occurred.

569
00:54:05,602 --> 00:54:09,542
And a lot of those, you know, were solved by improved hygiene,

570
00:54:10,022 --> 00:54:13,662
literally sanitization and improved hygiene. Right.

571
00:54:13,662 --> 00:54:26,502
Another thing that has been a big solution to the milk problem is improved water treatment, as well as the replacement of the horse with the car.

572
00:54:27,102 --> 00:54:31,842
Sounds weird, but there's no poo on the streets all over the place anymore, right?

573
00:54:32,182 --> 00:54:40,362
Well, I mean, a couple of towns that I don't want to call them out by name, but there might be some poop in the street.

574
00:54:40,362 --> 00:54:40,622
Okay.

575
00:54:41,382 --> 00:54:42,682
They're a poop map.

576
00:54:42,682 --> 00:54:50,922
yeah that's okay but we don't have raw milk producers in that no no doing that on the street

577
00:54:50,922 --> 00:54:58,202
like we used to uh the certified raw milk movement which is a reality right there was a a whole

578
00:54:58,202 --> 00:55:04,382
you know thing and there still is right uh i can't remember the name of the foundation

579
00:55:04,382 --> 00:55:17,282
go back here i don't have it um yeah but okay so it's it's a it's an organization i can't recall

580
00:55:17,282 --> 00:55:27,802
the name of it i think it starts with a w but their site is www.realmilk.com they've got some

581
00:55:27,802 --> 00:55:31,902
great stuff on there as well if you're interested in learning a little bit if you're interested in

582
00:55:31,902 --> 00:55:37,062
getting some some more information as well and we will continue to do some more uh

583
00:55:37,062 --> 00:55:45,482
informationals on this particular topic because as i said there's so much here uh that that i i

584
00:55:45,482 --> 00:55:52,782
just didn't have time to scratch the surface man i would have had to spend weeks of all day every

585
00:55:52,782 --> 00:55:58,722
day and i can't spend that kind of time on this sort of thing right so it's it's been quite the

586
00:55:58,722 --> 00:56:07,682
rabbit hole um and as far as it goes what i'm seeing is is a very very very hardcore push away

587
00:56:07,682 --> 00:56:15,622
from raw milk uh and we even said that pasteurization was great and now we're going to

588
00:56:15,622 --> 00:56:22,762
ultra pasteurized but why was there a problem with pasteurization

589
00:56:22,762 --> 00:56:30,722
do we need to like make it even more pasteurized i yeah no i didn't ever even really thought about

590
00:56:30,722 --> 00:56:36,562
that so yeah they've uh changed that too huh that will go look for something that's not ultra

591
00:56:36,562 --> 00:56:41,142
pasteurized in your local grocery store right just try and find regular pasteurized milk

592
00:56:41,142 --> 00:56:46,922
well find finding the raw milk was a challenge so when we got back home and we tried to find it here

593
00:56:46,922 --> 00:56:55,682
uh the the options were very very few so sprouts actually did have some goat milk but still you i

594
00:56:55,682 --> 00:57:00,522
don't know where it's coming from you know and it is labeled for for pet consumption only i think

595
00:57:00,522 --> 00:57:07,362
you know by law they all have to have that then it was uh very expensive in our states they do

596
00:57:07,362 --> 00:57:23,344
i think there you know there are other states uh i think uh some of the western states uh actually actually allow the sale of ramen for consumption My state in particular does allow herd share

597
00:57:23,864 --> 00:57:31,924
So you can go to a farmer and say, yes, I would like to buy a share of herd or maybe multiples if they even allow that.

598
00:57:32,044 --> 00:57:32,704
They may not.

599
00:57:32,704 --> 00:57:40,944
most of them contain it to one share which gets you you know a a quantity per x amount of time

600
00:57:40,944 --> 00:57:50,184
of product right okay um so yeah yeah when we first when we first wanted it we like they told

601
00:57:50,184 --> 00:57:55,424
us we don't have enough product for everybody that's wanting it so i mean goats apparently

602
00:57:55,424 --> 00:58:01,164
don't make as much as you know a huge dairy cow so so it was that we had to get on a waiting list

603
00:58:01,164 --> 00:58:02,544
and kind of work our way up there.

604
00:58:02,684 --> 00:58:04,904
And, you know, we get it every week now.

605
00:58:05,304 --> 00:58:07,604
My wife is making the key for herself.

606
00:58:07,864 --> 00:58:10,424
So we have to kind of keep it going.

607
00:58:12,164 --> 00:58:19,264
Yeah, their production's a third to a sixth of a cow,

608
00:58:19,644 --> 00:58:20,484
of a dairy cow.

609
00:58:20,844 --> 00:58:25,364
So depending on the goat, right, and the cow.

610
00:58:25,364 --> 00:58:27,084
It's going to wildly vary.

611
00:58:27,084 --> 00:58:34,044
um but uh yeah cow i think is anywhere from four to seven gallons of milk per milking

612
00:58:34,044 --> 00:58:40,604
right and a goat is you know somewhere between uh half and and one and a half gallons per milking

613
00:58:40,604 --> 00:58:45,864
depending on the goat yeah we were just out there the other day and uh yeah they all they all have

614
00:58:45,864 --> 00:58:51,684
names they get about i think 30 of them maybe 40 and they they all look healthy and you know

615
00:58:51,684 --> 00:59:02,064
yeah i went with you yeah you were out there pretty little farm yeah happy animals it's all

616
00:59:02,064 --> 00:59:08,444
you can ask for man if animals look happy you're probably in the right place right you know that's

617
00:59:08,444 --> 00:59:15,044
that's that's a thing very true as a human as a human being i think most of us are endowed with

618
00:59:15,044 --> 00:59:19,644
the ability to see an animal and be able to recognize whether they're happy or not

619
00:59:19,644 --> 00:59:27,984
that's true that's true some people without conscience don't don't really care but

620
00:59:27,984 --> 00:59:34,484
i guess they do not care but i think they can still recognize that right i would imagine maybe

621
00:59:34,484 --> 00:59:40,524
not but um yeah so this this is an interesting thing and really the the thing that just come

622
00:59:40,524 --> 00:59:48,144
keeps coming back to me is why is this stance so hardcore on this so have you figured out that

623
00:59:48,144 --> 00:59:57,344
reason yet or no i have not okay and i am i am hitting brick wall after brick wall uh in trying

624
00:59:57,344 --> 01:00:05,024
to get further i mean i actually had a couple sessions with some ai as well and started going

625
01:00:05,024 --> 01:00:09,224
down that rabbit hole and then got stonewalled i mean like you were talking about the

626
01:00:09,224 --> 01:00:15,244
i'm sorry like you were talking about the marijuana thing it kind of sounds similar to that like they

627
01:00:15,244 --> 01:00:22,064
just came across like with this stance that it has no use of anything and nobody should consume it

628
01:00:22,064 --> 01:00:29,344
and then they put out you know the propaganda to make everybody believe that yeah which and and

629
01:00:29,344 --> 01:00:35,924
that's what it's it feels like right uh the the ai sessions went to stonewalling and then

630
01:00:35,924 --> 01:00:42,184
you know even to the point of of telling me why it was dangerous and don't do it and you know

631
01:00:42,184 --> 01:00:47,984
here's more studies on why you can't or why this is better or this is healthier and you know blah

632
01:00:47,984 --> 01:00:51,924
blah blah blah blah and i'm like okay well what about this side and they're like oh no but you

633
01:00:51,924 --> 01:00:57,444
you need to understand the risks and it's it's bad and blah blah blah and i'm like well why and

634
01:00:57,444 --> 01:01:02,184
they're like oh because all this and i'm like but hasn't been solved with sanitization and

635
01:01:02,184 --> 01:01:08,084
you know hygiene and and a number of other issues you know things including tools etc

636
01:01:08,084 --> 01:01:17,464
and they're like yes but no i wonder if well uh hygiene is better people sterilize their buckets

637
01:01:17,464 --> 01:01:23,664
everything la la la but it's dangerous don't do it it'll die i mean i guess it could be dangerous

638
01:01:23,664 --> 01:01:31,944
if you try to milk a bull or something maybe i don't know that's a bad idea unless you got the

639
01:01:31,944 --> 01:01:37,524
bull pinned up real and he's in the mood uh in which case i don't know why you're doing this or

640
01:01:37,524 --> 01:01:43,164
why i even thought about that why did you bring that no we're not going there don't milk mail

641
01:01:43,164 --> 01:01:48,584
but okay i'm stopping now nope nope nope nope nope

642
01:01:48,584 --> 01:01:58,904
just freaking no uh and everybody will be happy to know that this this episode will actually come

643
01:01:58,904 --> 01:02:04,524
and any associated episode with this content on raw milk

644
01:02:04,524 --> 01:02:07,524
is going to come with its own thumbnail as well.

645
01:02:07,644 --> 01:02:09,904
So you'll easily be able to pick them out,

646
01:02:10,424 --> 01:02:12,304
create a nice little custom one.

647
01:02:12,564 --> 01:02:14,444
I think everyone will recognize it sometime.

648
01:02:14,604 --> 01:02:15,624
I'm going to give it away.

649
01:02:15,864 --> 01:02:17,364
I think you'll be able to see it and go,

650
01:02:17,364 --> 01:02:18,624
ha, that's good.

651
01:02:18,844 --> 01:02:32,366
You know we hit big time if we get the blue warning box on YouTube that says that the federal government has discouraged the drinking of raw milk and you know has a whole disclaimer thing about there Yeah I wouldn be surprised if they have one

652
01:02:33,186 --> 01:02:33,666
Yeah.

653
01:02:33,806 --> 01:02:38,306
I fully expect we're going to get informational notes as well as potentially

654
01:02:38,306 --> 01:02:41,446
community notes on this one. And that's fine. Right.

655
01:02:41,446 --> 01:02:47,126
I think this is a topic worthy of discussion, debate, and actual study.

656
01:02:47,706 --> 01:02:51,906
I really do. And to date,

657
01:02:51,926 --> 01:02:58,206
there hasn't been, it's all really been one-sided, right? Everything has been around

658
01:02:58,206 --> 01:03:05,826
why it's bad, why you shouldn't do it, why pasteurization is good and just as good as,

659
01:03:05,826 --> 01:03:12,866
and things like this. But the studies that were planned for raw milk all seemed to evaporate,

660
01:03:12,986 --> 01:03:19,846
vaporize, et cetera. And keep in mind that these studies are largely funded by government grants.

661
01:03:19,846 --> 01:03:26,286
don't get me wrong there are private endowments as well towards studies but if they get pressure

662
01:03:26,286 --> 01:03:33,326
you know it's likely you're not going to see a study on that i'm not saying that that is the

663
01:03:33,326 --> 01:03:38,866
case here however that one instance where the coronet magazine came out and did this thing

664
01:03:38,866 --> 01:03:43,986
and nuked a study on tooth decay and this was in the 40s it has never been done since

665
01:03:43,986 --> 01:03:54,606
that's why that's 70 was 75 years ago they were going to do it and then this fake article

666
01:03:54,606 --> 01:04:00,206
does this sound like something you might have heard somewhere in recent times

667
01:04:00,206 --> 01:04:08,586
yeah it's just a and that's where you know it gets deep man it's like how do you you know

668
01:04:08,586 --> 01:04:14,986
researching this stuff is insane oh and by the way i've got some cdc links that are going to be

669
01:04:14,986 --> 01:04:23,766
in this as well uh where they the page no longer exists but the internet does not forget and thanks

670
01:04:23,766 --> 01:04:31,326
to the amazing folks at archive.org and the way back machine i have a copy of that page

671
01:04:31,326 --> 01:04:37,286
so you will have a link to it it will be from archive.org it's going to be a relevant really

672
01:04:37,286 --> 01:04:43,246
long link. And if you look at the link, you'll notice that in the middle of it, it'll have a

673
01:04:43,246 --> 01:04:49,926
ref statement and it'll say the cdc.gov slash, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

674
01:04:49,926 --> 01:04:55,226
blah, blah, blah, blah, dot PDF. And it's, it's the full link. So we will make sure we get those

675
01:04:55,226 --> 01:05:02,706
out. I will put them on, on the line groups. I'll put them, uh, I will try to put them up on the X

676
01:05:02,706 --> 01:05:09,186
account as well and we'll definitely put these all as well as some show notes etc into the

677
01:05:09,186 --> 01:05:18,446
telegram channel um and uh yeah the telegram channel is you can get to it by putting in a

678
01:05:18,446 --> 01:05:28,886
web browser t.me slash space tomatoes that should get you straight to us that's the channel to get

679
01:05:28,886 --> 01:05:36,166
into the chat discussion just go to the comment under the first post there and you will be in our

680
01:05:36,166 --> 01:05:41,246
chat group so if you want to chat with us live you can if you've got ideas for a show that's a great

681
01:05:41,246 --> 01:05:51,486
place to put it um etc and uh let me make sure that i have that address correct yes i did t.me

682
01:05:51,486 --> 01:05:54,086
slash space

683
01:05:54,086 --> 01:05:55,346
tomatoes

684
01:05:55,346 --> 01:05:57,706
to be easy enough

685
01:05:57,706 --> 01:05:58,646
and if anybody

686
01:05:58,646 --> 01:06:02,066
I like reading the comments if anybody has had

687
01:06:02,066 --> 01:06:04,066
any personal experience

688
01:06:04,066 --> 01:06:05,586
or maybe they

689
01:06:05,586 --> 01:06:07,926
completely disagree with what we have to say

690
01:06:07,926 --> 01:06:10,026
leave a comment down

691
01:06:10,026 --> 01:06:11,326
below let us know

692
01:06:11,326 --> 01:06:13,786
maybe if

693
01:06:13,786 --> 01:06:15,726
raw milk has killed you let us know

694
01:06:15,726 --> 01:06:17,446
we'd like to hear your story

695
01:06:17,446 --> 01:06:19,726
if you have died

696
01:06:19,726 --> 01:06:25,606
consuming raw milk please leave a comment so we can get you on the show

697
01:06:25,606 --> 01:06:35,066
we'll come to you in person studio visit because you're dead so i'm sorry that wasn't nice i hope

698
01:06:35,066 --> 01:06:42,406
nobody has no no we don't want anybody to get sick to my research uh what i've found is the

699
01:06:42,406 --> 01:06:50,046
numbers are are are everywhere on that uh but none of them are outside of the single digit range

700
01:06:50,046 --> 01:07:01,946
in the last 25 plus years okay so uh none of them um so that's again 10 million people

701
01:07:01,946 --> 01:07:10,306
single digit range uh i know there are plenty of things right now and car crashes kill 55 000

702
01:07:10,306 --> 01:07:20,326
people every year right uh spinach has killed 50 people in the last 20 years two people per year

703
01:07:20,326 --> 01:07:28,726
just from spinach if pop i only knew ah man he'd be sad he would he'd just be like dude

704
01:07:28,726 --> 01:07:43,488
hello hey olive you pretty good at that hey you know practice make stupid or something So we going to have an episode part two about raw milk

705
01:07:44,768 --> 01:07:46,008
Oh, without question.

706
01:07:46,068 --> 01:07:51,488
I'm actually going to try to get a guest, maybe two, on.

707
01:07:52,168 --> 01:07:58,808
I'm going to try to get two guests so that we can do a little panel and a back and forth.

708
01:07:58,888 --> 01:07:59,308
Nice.

709
01:07:59,508 --> 01:07:59,728
Right?

710
01:07:59,728 --> 01:08:16,008
Yeah. I'd like to, I'd like to hear, you know, on, on this, both sides of the story, right. Um, you know, but, you know, keep in mind, I'm not looking for a rabid person on either side of that spectrum.

711
01:08:16,008 --> 01:08:23,008
like you know someone who is logical and and able to you know without getting

712
01:08:23,008 --> 01:08:31,468
hyper emotional you know kind of detail out what you know what the reality is what the facts are

713
01:08:31,468 --> 01:08:39,948
and what their thoughts are on both sides right um so yeah but uh yeah another big note if you

714
01:08:39,948 --> 01:08:46,688
happen to be a farmer that, you know, deals with this, that deals with raw milk, uh, sales that

715
01:08:46,688 --> 01:08:52,908
would like to sell your raw milk to people, but can't, uh, or any other circumstance like that,

716
01:08:52,948 --> 01:08:58,028
please, you know, let us know. We'd love to have you on the show. Would love to hear what your,

717
01:08:58,028 --> 01:09:05,148
your thoughts are. Um, you know, your opinions, your facts, your everything, right. Um, and it's

718
01:09:05,148 --> 01:09:13,648
a great way to promote your farm to maybe at least 30 people that's that's a lot 30 that's big 34 i

719
01:09:13,648 --> 01:09:20,908
thought right well on just youtube there's more there's more and they keep growing i don't know

720
01:09:20,908 --> 01:09:25,848
yeah i gotta join the telegram thing i think that sounds pretty pretty interesting good yeah

721
01:09:25,848 --> 01:09:32,048
all right so we'll keep promoting it and letting people know but right now it's fairly dead um

722
01:09:32,048 --> 01:09:33,828
But it is a good place.

723
01:09:33,908 --> 01:09:36,948
The other good thing about Telegram is the video is there for you to download.

724
01:09:37,488 --> 01:09:40,408
So you can download it to your computer or download it to your phone

725
01:09:40,408 --> 01:09:42,888
and watch it on your own device without any connection.

726
01:09:43,048 --> 01:09:43,528
That's handy.

727
01:09:43,928 --> 01:09:46,128
So, yeah, I think so.

728
01:09:46,308 --> 01:09:47,508
I do that quite often.

729
01:09:47,988 --> 01:09:48,308
Hmm.

730
01:09:48,688 --> 01:09:49,008
Nice.

731
01:09:49,128 --> 01:09:49,768
It's nice.

732
01:09:50,368 --> 01:09:50,608
Yeah.

733
01:09:51,748 --> 01:09:55,488
So I think it's about all I had for today.

734
01:09:55,608 --> 01:09:55,868
Yeah.

735
01:09:57,348 --> 01:09:58,428
I mean, yeah.

736
01:09:58,428 --> 01:10:00,588
I don't know that much more about it.

737
01:10:00,908 --> 01:10:01,468
But you've been.

738
01:10:01,468 --> 01:10:02,028
All right.

739
01:10:02,048 --> 01:10:03,408
You've been kicking it in.

740
01:10:05,088 --> 01:10:06,988
I have a lot more than I just said.

741
01:10:07,168 --> 01:10:14,108
I just, you know, I've been scrambling to try and piece it together so that there's coherent statements in here that are backed up with something.

742
01:10:14,108 --> 01:10:14,548
Right.

743
01:10:15,328 --> 01:10:18,928
You know, it's one thing to just tell you what my thoughts are on the subject.

744
01:10:19,188 --> 01:10:22,448
It's an entirely different thing to give you some information.

745
01:10:22,968 --> 01:10:23,408
Right.

746
01:10:23,808 --> 01:10:26,208
And we wanted to give you both.

747
01:10:27,188 --> 01:10:27,348
So.

748
01:10:28,128 --> 01:10:29,128
Knowledge is power.

749
01:10:29,308 --> 01:10:29,488
Right.

750
01:10:30,548 --> 01:10:31,248
Yeah, absolutely.

751
01:10:31,468 --> 01:10:42,388
And more research is needed on this because it's definitely something that's been suppressed in a number of ways, right?

752
01:10:42,988 --> 01:10:47,168
Legislatively, you know, in a number of ways.

753
01:10:47,168 --> 01:10:59,668
If you're interested in looking at the results of something like where this goes wrong and how farmers get treated on this, you can look up the Amos Miller.

754
01:10:59,948 --> 01:11:01,728
A-M-O-S Miller.

755
01:11:02,088 --> 01:11:02,808
Sounds like it is.

756
01:11:02,868 --> 01:11:03,828
I'm not going to spell it for you.

757
01:11:03,868 --> 01:11:05,628
If you can't spell Miller, I don't know.

758
01:11:05,768 --> 01:11:06,708
Go look at a beer bottle.

759
01:11:06,948 --> 01:11:07,928
Same right there.

760
01:11:09,948 --> 01:11:11,908
And look at his story.

761
01:11:12,028 --> 01:11:14,408
Look at what happened with his farm and why.

762
01:11:14,408 --> 01:11:25,188
right and and you know you kind of look at that and just go really i mean honestly so anyway i think

763
01:11:25,188 --> 01:11:29,388
that is about where i want to leave this right here um and and again we're going to put all this

764
01:11:29,388 --> 01:11:36,028
stuff up there and please you know let us know if you have ideas or you have anything else um

765
01:11:36,028 --> 01:11:42,228
but yeah that said thank you everybody for giving us a little bit of your time we know time is a

766
01:11:42,228 --> 01:11:49,708
precious commodity and we really enjoyed having you here with us um leave a comment give us a like

767
01:11:49,708 --> 01:11:55,168
give us thumbs down if you didn't like us uh you know let us know if you want to come on the show

768
01:11:55,168 --> 01:12:03,848
join the telegram you know find us on youtube spotify apple podcasts iheart radio pod bean

769
01:12:03,848 --> 01:12:12,488
podcast addict and X as well as telegram for all your space tomatoes needs.

770
01:12:12,848 --> 01:12:15,888
And remember wherever you are,

771
01:12:16,308 --> 01:12:18,208
whenever you're listening to this,

772
01:12:18,828 --> 01:12:20,308
have an amazing day.

773
01:12:21,208 --> 01:12:22,008
Thanks for watching everybody.

774
01:12:22,348 --> 01:12:22,908
Appreciate it.

775
01:12:23,188 --> 01:12:23,848
See you next time.

776
01:12:25,468 --> 01:12:26,148
Bye.

777
01:12:33,848 --> 01:12:48,708
We'll see you next time.