Dragons, Bourbon, and Backyard Shenanigans

0:00 all right everybody we're back live on the space tomatoes podcast i'm your host havoc and your other host hello i'm alex and we with us a guest from the war dragons community big outdoors guy just a pretty solid guy all around lumber hey guys thanks for having me hey bud how you doing good good it's been a while i know i know some years for sure yeah man so what do you what do you been up to today oh today um i was out in uh rockingham north carolina meeting with um one of my accounts that professional world right so um uh just doing some stuff with them and writing some contracts but long day back home port of bourbon talking with you guys so i can't complain oh that's awesome man sounds like a great time i actually forgot you were in north carolina too yeah east coast man you know havoc's only a couple hours away maybe i don't know

1:32 i should have said that but you came from uh from like california didn't you no no never never west coast i thought you were i thought you were out there no i must have been a different different guy no i'm just brain dead getting old sorry yeah i know i know the feeling yeah no uh yeah lumber is about two maybe two and a half hours away from our place so yeah right down on the coast well now not so much on the coast right but very close yeah yeah i think the beach is like 45 minutes away so toast enough right nice that is coast enough for me man it's awesome so uh you came back to war dragons are you are you just you really into self-deprecating you know i mean like what do you what's the deal a little crazy so this year uh marks my 10-year anniversary so i started playing in it was 2015 summer of 2015 and you know I've I've retired a few times and I just I don't know it was during you know duck season just went out in the Carolinas and you know I had that nostalgic withdrawal and I'm like I'm gonna I'm gonna log back in and I did and I'm like this is cool you know I reconnected with some

3:07 friends because the people kind of bring you back right I miss the people so there's some really good friendships but you know i come back and you know i can't just play casually because you know i was i was on dreadnought with lx for almost a year and you know before that you know i led other diamond teams so i'm like i gotta go to diamond and here i am you know four or five months in and it's been it's been interesting to say the least the game's changed quite a bit yeah now now for the not for bit better but when did you come back to it just recently is that something new or months ago or well um and i could tell you this like kind of the history like i was i had my laptop here i was like trying to log all the teams i've been on it's crazy i don't even remember um but the main ones you know i was on equilibrium i led that for uh two three years right i i inherited it from alley and bulldog um who had it in sapphire they weren't really competitive this was after dread destroyed them the first time right um and i'm like you know what let's let's go to diamond with this team so so where was i i don't even know um when did i come talking about equilibrium yeah so So we equilibrium.

4:35 So, yeah, you know, we took it back to Diamond. I had some really good officers. It was just fun. It was probably almost the funnest I had in, you know, playing the game. We'd war like every night group calls. It was what the game was made for, right? War Dragons. Just camaraderie with, you know, really good friends. We used to have team meets, man. we'd go to Vegas, we'd meet up. It was like a family. And I really, you know, that's what brought me back. It's just that those relationships with real people, they're professionals. Most of us are professionals, right? You know, when I downloaded the game, I was actually in an airport flying to DC. I'm like, I don't know how it popped up. I was like, war dragons. I'm a nerd. I like dragons. I'm a Harry Potter buff, Lord of the Rings, right? So I'm like, this is really cool.

5:30 It's like Sims and dragons and fighting. So, yeah, so that kind of the 10-year anniversary in me playing and kind of missing it because it's been, I came back in 2021 for about 10 months to lead Digital Chaos. That was interesting. They kind of suckered me into it. I've had a couple bourbon pours and they're like, come back. So I came back and I led Digital Chaos, which was, I still had PTSD during that time. Alex, you were on Dread, I think, during that.

6:10 You guys were pounding DC. And they're like, you're good with conflict resolution, you know, kind of make a truce. So, you know, it took six months and a dozen castles traded to kind of resolve that. And, you know, I handed leadership over to Shiggy. I don't know if you remember her. And I said, F the game. I'm never coming back. This was like the end of 2021. And, yeah, so I'm on a good team now. They're a good group of guys. A lot of old school players are, you know, they're hiding out.

6:51 Not really hiding out. I mean, they're public. but you know just so many teams have disbanded i mean you look in atlas it's it's it's absolutely insane like there's vacant level fives like that would have never happened like you know during during the games prime right so it's um it's a different game yeah it is so when you when you so this last time you quit you you quit for a good stint right a couple of years? Yeah, about, about three years. Now, like my daughters, like they actually, when I first downloaded the game, I had three devices and I wanted to get my daughters playing.

7:37 So, you know, I had three accounts. They played for like a month and stopped. So I didn't, so I had, I had all, so I kept, you know, playing them. And, you know, during, during the last three years my my youngest she was you know she was on a little sapphire not sapphire i think it was a platinum team just goofing off you know so she kept it idled sort of kind of and so it's it was behind but not crazy behind you know i've i've spent some money to catch it up i'm not quite in game but you know i'm somewhat relevant to have fun competitively right now which is pretty cool so i had kind of the same experience i talked my wife into downloading it he she played like two days and said this is stupid that's how i got my old yeah yeah so after you quit that time like did you get well it sounds like you kind of didn't really quit quit you you were kind of in and out but did you kind of like i mean miss it what did you fill your time with oh man so that's a good question. We briefly talked about that prior to recording. So I'm a big outdoors guy, right? So I love, you know, anything hunting and fishing. I decided to actually start like a YouTube channel, like social media. And, you know, I've carried GoPros out on my hunts and fishing trips and posted them. And, you know, I have quite a large following now and that kind of,

9:09 you know, preoccupied a lot of time. So, you know, as I mentioned before, duck season went out, there's no hunting, you know, you could coyote hunt, but I was like, it's a perfect storm for me to come back. The bourbon was good too. So, um, but right now I'm kind of struggling because, you know, I am in diamond and turkey season is upon us right here in the Carolina. So i'm like you know i'm missing quest i'm getting yelled at i'm like that that part of the game i don't miss it's when it becomes a job right um but yeah still setting those alarms for 3 a.m nope nope nope you're missing events lumber you're slacking i know i know i'm i'm horrible at PvP. I don't even know why they keep me on the team, but Atlas, though, you know, I'll sit and I'll hit teams for hours, so they like that.

10:11 Because I'm not the best flyer, but I'm pretty good, especially when I know the dragon. Yeah. I think you were a pretty good flyer myself. I don't know. Well, I was... Yeah, people have said that. I can kind of picture how it went down. and you're probably sitting up in a tree stand, and you decide to look at your phone, and you're like, oh, the new War Dragon season. It's Soul Drain. That's for me. That's what I need back in my life is Soul Drain. Soul Drain. Soul Drain. Something like that, yeah. And now I'm just, I don't know. I don't know how long I'll keep it up. I don't see it forever indefinite.

10:51 You know, the same events that you guys left and when I left, they're still running. They're still running in cadence. and I'm like guys you're dealing with player retention you know obviously it's a money making game right so people aren't spending you gotta add a little I'm sure there's variables to like get programming cost but I don't know I figured they'd have a different event but nope it's the same events I mean they can even mix up the map but nope nope two lefts two rights and bam and you're done. That's pretty much it, yeah.

11:33 But, you know, hey, like you had said, right, it's the camaraderie, it's the brotherhood, if you will, right? There is a lot of that, right? It has a lot of pull on people. It does on me, or did. Nowadays, I really couldn't imagine myself going back, not just the bass. If I hadn't done that with my base, I'd still, I think, you know, being in some of the team chats still, I see the same frustrations, the same, you know, monotony kind of a thing going on.

12:14 And I just, no interest, you know, I'm like, oh, they're griping about this. Oh, they dropped another currency for yet another tower. Oh, you know. and i'm like oh man i just but i did love it i mean there's no question about it just like you you know i saw dragons and i was like wait what i can fly a dragon and kill stuff oh i mean yeah yeah yeah and the mechanics aren't too complicated you know that a five-year-old can figure it out or an 80 year old can figure it out so i think they're they're on to something you know i did list you some pain points we could talk about later.

12:54 Easy fixes just kind of looking in but again there cost to that And I think if I don know PG is I feel they plugged their ears a little bit with community feedback, just a little bit. I think the input they're getting is a little biased. I'm unbiased. I've been on all sides. I played with, I was on Yin Yang for almost a year, actually, with you in 2000. It was 21, actually. Yeah. So all sides, you know, there's, there's just, I don't know, the voice isn't heard. I think if they did more surveys and polls and got more feedback, you know, you'd, you'd, they'd make little minor changes to kind of drive revenue.

13:43 You know, that's my background is, you know, finance, right? I understand ROI. I understand all that. When I was in, when I was at the summit with you in 2019, I had a chance to sit down with the marketing manager and we were bouncing ideas back and forth and say, these are really, these are really awesome. And she's like, I'll follow up with you. Well, two weeks later, she quit the job. So I'm like, you know, all those great ideas, you know, just, I don't know. So, you know, I think they can do things a little more efficiently. And, you know, player retention has always been an issue.

14:24 And now more than ever, I don't even see how the game is still going. I mean, I really don't. So the game had a special invitation for very dedicated players. I wonder how they came up with the criteria on who to invite for that event. I'm still a little mad about that yeah I got invited I still had to sign an NDA and all that oh nice yeah Pocket Gems was never too big on the little fixes they're like we're going to take your list that you've carefully compiled and taken hours to research and you know how we're going to fix it we're going to add a new currency that'll fix everything that'll fix everything the new they just dropped the new tower absolute like it's i get what they're trying to do but i don't know i get what they're trying to do too hey yeah rely in their pockets however i don't know you want i don't know people will buy it like i've i've spent when i can't come back i've spent a lot not crazy like i used to but i've spent some money trying to catch up because you know to play in Diamond you have to be somewhat relevant, you gotta be able to beat the bases, otherwise what's the point in being in Diamond, right?

15:49 How hard is it to develop one of these games? Is it like really intensive or what? I don't know I think, you know, and we got this feedback at the Summit, right? The main issue again is is that they coded it all on a really old UI, right? One of the kind of first ones that came out that people were kind of using as a commercial UI. And when they went to try and unravel the code to put it into a new UI, they started finding that there were dependencies everywhere, kind of like the whole water shrine thing, right?

16:30 We can't get rid of it because if we get rid of it, it borks the whole game. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's a pretty big forklift type of approach if they want to get it into something that is more flexible, that they could modify, you know, base design. They could change the layout, you know, so you're not, like Alex said, you know, two left turns, two right turns in your home, you know. But again, that's a pretty big dump of money right there. You're going to have to go through what I can only imagine is a stacked layer of, you know, crap on top of crap on top of crap.

17:11 And it's just all interwoven, you know. But I will tell you, you know, that that that right there would probably lead to a ton of interest. I think people would be a lot more happy with that and a resurgence of it. But on that same track, what are some small, like if we could shove this in PG's face, what would be some small incremental changes that they could make that likely wouldn't cost too much but would improve player satisfaction or happiness? That's a good question, right? So, you know, overpowered like TAs and alliances have always been a pain point for some, right?

17:56 When you're in that, Alex is like, yeah, I've been there. Dude, I was right. It's fun. It's fun for us, but not the community, right? So how would you kind of balance that? I thought about it. An Atlas shuffle, right? So you have teams every Atlas season that are randomly selected by, you know, team power, randomly put in, you form your five, your five TA, your five team TA. That's going to force team collaboration. And, you know, if you don't like that team, well, guess what? You're SOL, because you're stuck with them for the next, however many days that season is. And kind of increase, like, how do you incentivize, like, cooperation? Well, have big TA collective pot 12-hour timers that may be excessive but something that's like okay we're gonna work together and you know maybe it's glory driven collectively i don't know i mean but i think that's kind of within their control to have you know change those mechanics those mechanics they have a little more influence over in atlas versus regular gameplay was my my understanding um and that would bust up you know alliances a random selection every season team cooperation this actually i was talking to three

19:26 from strikers she she brought this up and i'm like that's that's a pretty good idea um but it's something to entertain because that would that would um really shake shake the map up a lot you know i don't know if you reset the map entirely and you conquer new castles that would be cool you know but right now i mean you look at the amount of baking castles and pirate teams you know that's going to fix that naturally you know if there's a reset every 30 days or what seasons every 90 days i don't i don't even know um that's going to fix a lot of it because pirates pirate teams are a huge issue right now so you know um i have an idea to fix pirates pirate teams if they don't want to do that shuffle you know when you hit those beasts in atlas to get resources gold like every time you hit them it drops right so if you go to a castle and you hit one player's prim primark every time you hit them the gp gets curved maybe it's 100 70 50 zero so that's going to help with bullying you know those are easy mechanics that and that's going to fix our teams too so i mean there's little i have i have a whole book of ideas you know i'd love we prefer to we prefer to call it character building character building no i like that i like that spear the rod spoil the team right so um yeah i don't know there there's a lot of ideas and this is the community

21:02 has good ideas and I think I think if they hear enough of them and they look at ROI saying hey it's not going to cost us much to implement these and we could potentially drive this amount of revenue let's try it let's entertain it right now their game's dying it's dying fast so they gotta they gotta think outside the box I do like some new mechanics that they've added right so there's Relics did you were you around when there were relics that you could add the dragons and and like bases they just started that when i left i left in november of 23 so they had just started the relic creation process where you could you know craft your own and but there was a lot of uh and i've i heard they they've done a better job with it but you know people were just getting like you know uh you know five percent wood wood boost or something like that like yeah too often you know no they obviously that gets expensive it does but they they've had they have it now to like before you know if you have a max base max towers um the common runes and glyphs like you're kind of like copy paste your base is somewhat similar like if you have max research right now it's there's more there's more of a chance to have a unique base you know because not everybody is going to have the same relics and like your

22:35 dragons and they have the new gear like ascended gear wasn't around when i was retired now there's ascended gear that goes up to level 12 so i like a lot of the things they've done and the towers How I've actually been able to catch back up is it costs like three or four days to get a level 120 tower to 121. So the curve to catch up is kind of... They've incentivized players that have retired to come back. Same with breeding. It doesn't cost as much to backbreed. So I do like a lot of the things they have done. Continue doing that.

23:17 you know, just building upon that, making it more, more unique, uh, for the player, you know, to have, you know, the spenders out there are going to have the best base regardless. Right. So give them that advantage. If they want to spend $500,000 on their base, let them have the best base. That's hard to beat. You know, that's, that's going to drive revenue for them. So. Do they still have those guys in the top tiers that have like the whole season done in like a day or two? there's a there's not as yeah there's still around not as many there's not as many jls right but um there's there's some there's a handful of them you know i nice i've i've never been that guy like i don't i've never been that guy yeah yeah but you know i'm smart with saving chest and opening certain things during the start of a season and yeah but there's still some big spenders yeah i always thought it was cool like by the end of the week you could be you know get the review on them like don't spend your money on or you know your token i forget even what the currency was to get their sigils or something i i don't remember but he's you know don't don't spend it on this one you know go for this one yep yeah yeah so what are you what are you imbibing on there drinking yeah yeah a little william weller larue buffalo trace antique collection it's a good bottle so you're a bourbon guy you're you're mentioning right you like

24:53 the bland the blends well i like all sorts of bourbon personally but yeah i have my favorites and Blanton's just happens to be one for me, you know, like we discussed previously, it has, you know, some variations depending on, you know, where they're pulling, you know, what, what, you know, barrel and where in the barrel they're pulling it from. But in general, it's the most consistent and reliable, like I am going to enjoy this, you know? And then, you know, especially if you bump up to Blanton's Gold, then, you know, that's, for me, it's it's always a pretty consistent pretty consistent drink yep that's it you know got a bottle of it over back here have you have you tried the red the japanese and i have that they came back and what's your thoughts on that one it's a little more oaky it's got a little it's it's a rye you know it's the rye mash bill um i like it i like all of blends um i've had the green label the black you know I was trying to complete the vertical I have are you a weller guy do you like weeded bourbons i sometimes it depends wellers for me is kind of hit or miss sometimes it really good i have had some that i just wasn't a big fan of yeah i think the best in that lineup man and you could find is the weller 12 like i like right around that 90 proof

26:25 it's good you can pour a little you know half pour and just sip on it you know i'm more of a collector you know uh yeah i'll drink you know tonight was an occasion to reconnect with friends so i'm like you know what i'll have some good pours but um that kind of preoccupied some of my idle time in war dragons i'm like i have all this money i'm not spending like what do i do i'm like I'm going to create a bourbon bar. So over the last three years, I've created a pretty impressive collection. So I guess when I run out of bourbon, I'll quit more dragons again and start spending there.

27:07 Restock the bourbon. Restock it for a while, yeah. Nice. You might switch over to like chick beer. No way. I have not a I've had some I've had some busies before man they're not bad on the boat you know it gets hot like I can't if I'm if I'm out in the you know the sun I can't drink bourbon that's just too heavy I'll drink I'll drink some I'll drink some light beers there's nothing wrong with that my wife actually loves Corona Premier that's her her favorite it and turned LX on to it.

27:50 Not a beer drinker, does not like beer in general, but seems to enjoy that, I think, right? Yeah, once in a while. Yeah, on vacation, once a year. It's good. Once a year, yeah. Yeah, man. Yeah, and bourbon, I can't even imagine hot day in bourbon. Oh, yeah, that just reminds me of very interesting times, you know, sitting at a picnic table next to a pool and someone pulls out a little mason jar with clear stuff in it yeah yeah it's not gonna be a it's gonna be it's gonna be a fun day but it probably won't be a memorable day because you don't know what the hell not for you anyway right yeah what else do you have going on in your life uh well i got a lot of hobbies guys um so i make wine that's kind of i think i mentioned that yeah yeah yeah i got on our our region it's muscadine grapes so i grow quite a few muscadine grapes and that's that's a hobby eventually like on the bucket list is we'll start a boutique little winery um i make probably 300 gallons of wine a year right now. I gift it all. So it's, and you've had Muscadine, you heard of Duplin Winery, have it. So they, um, they, uh, they grow a lot of their,

29:24 their grapes around here. Like my neighbor, he grows for them. So, uh, you know, my soil and conditions are great for it. So I have, I have a few acres that are growing just for, just for fun um so that's that's taking up some time uh you know i have a homestead out here so chickens ducks quail uh you know the kids they love that you know living out here in the country uh but fishing hunting and fishing and hunting loving every day man that's that's kind of the name of the game for me that's it right there yeah i haven't taken on quail yet i keep thinking about it but the eggs are so small and just I get frustrated trying to make anything with them and then you know I love quail but it's just you know it's appetizers I guess you know I keep thinking about it though I'm like man it would be cool because they're quiet they they you know come up real quick um and people seem to really love their eggs so might be have something maybe be something we have to take on at some point my wife keeps talking about the quail thing probably you know like it's it's pretty uh amenable to the urban homestead kind of thing like they don't bother people and so any pointers on the the quail that you can give me oh yeah so um i guess the the big one that a lot of homesteaders we have coternix jumbo brown right so

30:56 super easy to raise man they almost look like i keep them in stacked bunny cages that's what it looks like and they they have to stay in smaller cages otherwise they bounce back up like if you have a two-foot ceiling they're gonna break their necks because they they get they're really skittish so i i mean i hate it you look they're only 15 foot ceilings but if they get scared and jump up they're not going to kill themselves but um there's some light level variations you have to keep a artificial light in if you want to get eggs you know they have to get x amount of hours of daylight a day to produce eggs but man you could hatch a a quail in i think it's 18 or 19 days you know we've we had several hundred quail at one time and it got out of control.

31:49 So we, we gave a lot away and established other homesteaders. But right now we're down probably 50 and, uh, the eggs are, the eggs are small, right? But I pickled them, pickled quail eggs. Oh my gosh. You get a Mason jar of that. It's really good. It really is good. So, um, how does that work? make it to pickle them right so you can make your you can make your own pickle brine it's gonna you know comprise mostly of sugar salt and then vinegar and you could add herbs and stuff but it's really easy i pickle okra i mean we grow probably half an acre of okra every year um i'm i'm actually working on having my own pickle bran pickled okra and pickles actually so um i got uh i have a few um brines that people are liking so i'm testing it like i said i got a lot of hobbies i'm just my hands are in many pots i don't know why i came back to war dragons but here i am um i just i just had an image of of a label for lumber's pickles and it's yeah like some Some lumberjack dude and holding a big fat dill pickle.

33:07 I'm sorry. It's good. It's good marketing. It is good marketing. Not too far off either, but. You'll definitely want to stick this big fat pickle in your mouth. Yeah, that's probably not going to go over well with everybody. No. Yeah, there's some risque marketing out there that works. There is for sure. Yeah, man. Well, that's pretty cool. So, I mean, the farm life is treating you well.

33:49 How did the transition go? Was there any, like, issue with the family, with you? You know, was it difficult? Did you kind of get back to people or events or anything like that? So this was during 2020 when the pandemic was kind of at a high, right? We had a house right there on the intercoastal waterway. My boat's in the water. I could go offshore anytime I wanted. So leaving that and kind of, you know, my family lives there. Wife's family lives there. It was kind of hard, but we really thought and prayed about it.

34:34 And we're like, let's go to the country. Let's move to the country. That's always been my dream. But when you have a wife that grew up in Atlanta, a big city girl, and I'm like, that's never going to happen. But when she's like, I had a dream we lived in the country. I'm like, let's make that dream a reality. So, you know, the next day I'm like, we're looking at houses and I'm like, I've never heard of that town. Let's go look at this house that I found. And two months later, we're living in it. You know, I'd listed our house. It sold. But the girls, you know, you leave a network of friends and family.

35:15 I'm not too far away. We're, you know, maybe an hour at Topps. So we're still relatively close to, you know, city life. But the transition wasn't as bad as I thought. Luckily, we fell into a good network of people up here to hang out with, like-minded folks that love the outdoors and love nature. So that kind of helped quite a bit. Awesome. Any regrets at all? No, I mean, like I said, I still have family there. So if I want to go on a boat, I just drive an hour and hop on my dad's boat. So, you know, there's little sacrifice.

35:58 But, you know, if you want to go to, like, a nice restaurant where you're driving 40 minutes, like, we have a caution light. That's it. You know, it's literally, there's not a lot out. We have a dollar store and a gas station. So, yeah. Is it next to a food line, though? No food lines 40 minutes away. Oh, dang. So it kind of puts you in a position to, like, if you want, like, fresh herbs and stuff, or you're growing them, and then you're vacuum sealing them, and then you're freeze drying them. So, you know, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but, you know, 2020 was some crazy stuff for a lot of people.

36:43 And we just, just the freedom out here. I'm like, you know, you go into, to the city, you're like, it's complete lockdown. You have to show certain identification. I'm like, where we're at, we're like, it doesn't have, it doesn't matter. Like, we're, we're here, like, like, you're kind of on your own world. So we've kind of carried that mindset. And, you know, right now, my girls, they have a little, you know, withdrawals. They're like, I do miss my friends being able to, you know, play with them. But, you know, again, they have a little network here, which is nice. So you've been there about five years now?

37:26 Yeah, right at five years. So, yeah. Have you noticed like an influx of people trying to do the same thing? Because I know where Havoc's at, there was like nobody, and you're starting to have a few more visitors to the area. And sometimes it kind of ruins what you have going on because everybody else wants the same thing. Yeah. No, I've seen that quite a bit. It's funny, like 2021, you start to see social media posts and stuff like that where urban homestead living, everyone's trying to get off the grid. So we moved at the right time when like, you know, the market was fantastic.

38:06 Like, you know, I got above my asking price on my house. Like, you know, I was able to pretty much get this one, you know, for cash. So now, man, if you have that desire to move out to the country, you know, for one, everything's inflated. It's just it's a crazy market. You know, I'm glad she had that epiphany and that dream to move out to the country because, you know, it would have been a lot harder and more challenging to do that now. So, yeah. But, yeah, there's been quite a few families pop up. Luckily, where I'm at, there's a lot of farmland. So not a lot of I looked at it on the map.

38:48 I looked at, you know, floodplains because Carolinas, we get hit by a lot of hurricanes. And there's a lot of flooding because I have a river half a mile down the road from me. However I like 100 foot above sea level So you know unless it like a no in the heart flood like my house is fine My river property is going to get destroyed but you know I able to pull all my assets out of there. You know, I have a mobile bathroom on wheels. I have, everything's built to flood. I actually built it from scratch down there, which is really cool. So, it did flood last year, which, when we had all that rain, you remember that havoc? It was just crazy amounts of rain. And yeah, I had like three foot of water on my property, but it dried out.

39:36 My everything worked just great. So it's knock on wood. Hopefully we don't get a hundred year flood and it goes higher than that. But, you know, I'm pretty happy with with how things worked out. Yeah, we've thought about making the move. It's just I'm just really nervous because even if you buy next next to 100 acre farm, And the next thing you know, like that guy could sell it off. And now you have 150 home development going in there or 500 home development. And you're like, man, this is exactly what I just got away from. Yeah. Look at zoning. Like, you know, talk to your county and be like, you know, can they ever do a development here, right?

40:17 Like, does the land perk? Like, you could ask these questions, get it in some sort of written documentation. At the end of the day, anything could be bought, right? You have the right developer with the right amount of schmoozing and money, they're going to do things. But if you have some sort of written documentation, it might hinder that. But, man, I love it. You're in Florida, is it? Yeah, Central Florida, yeah. Yeah, no. I've never looked back. I love where I'm at. I would take my phone and give you a tour. It's beautiful out here, man. I got 300-acre field to my right, and they're growing corn right now.

41:02 And to my left is my vineyard, and it's just trees, big hardwood trees. It's nice. That's awesome. We really like it. Yeah. We'll have to get you back on at one point. We'll make a trip down, and we'll do a little walkthrough and stuff. That'd be pretty awesome. Oh, I love that. Yeah. Awesome. It's a thing. Yeah. We just need to figure out the dates. Yeah, I got my river property. I got a cabin down there. So anytime you guys want to come out and hang out and stay, you're welcome to. Like, it's pretty cool. Like, I've had, I still stay in touch with a lot of my old War Dragon friends. Like, they still come out to this day.

41:43 Like, we hang out and go fishing and hunting. Because, I mean, we're real people. You know, there's some weirdos out there, but I don't really hang out with those. But you guys are always, you guys are good in my book, man. For sure. Yeah, we're still going strong on alpaca. We just finished, well, last year, November, the seventh year of alpaca, which is pretty insane. Managed to pull that one off, even with some forum shenanigans about, oh, you can't do that because it's a pandemic. I'm like, yeah. Yeah, we did get a bunch of crap from that, huh? We did. We got a lot of crap for that.

42:27 I think I offered everybody, if they wanted to come, I'll give you a free Tyvek suit and a SN95 respirator set up if you show up. Nobody took the offer, though, unfortunately. No, it was, you know, an interesting time, shall we say. So you got some good fishing down in that river? Oh, my gosh. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So, you know, I grew up saltwater fishing. So, you know, I had Wahoo, King Mackerel. We go off the shore to do some ledges for grouper. You know, that's kind of in my family. Like I'm like fifth generation fisherman, like Carolina Beach.

43:10 You know, there's charter boats that ran out of there, right? That was my family's. So very established saltwater fisherman. And I move out here and I grew up, you know, catching bass occasionally, but freshwater fishing is something else, man. When you could literally hop in your boat on like dry land and catch a 50 pound like flathead catfish. Like, I'm like, I have to go offshore an all day trip to catch a 50 pound fish. But yeah, lots of really good fishing. It's just convenient. You know, have you ever been a limb line fishing Havoc? I have not. Have you heard of that?

43:51 I have. So you go out. You have, yeah. So, yeah, the kids love that. So I'll go out, set 20 lines. Basically, you have a tree that overhangs the water. And you tie a paracord with a weighted hook, piece of meat. And you come back two hours later. And that tree is just popping up and down, man. And the kids, they love it. They pull in a big old fish. My girls, they like to catch fish. I'm not going to say they like fishing, right? You know, if they're catching fish, then yeah, they like fishing, but their attention span is really limited. And that's most kids. But even the adults, man, you set 20 lines, you go back to the camp, drink a couple beers, eat some barbecue, then go check your lines.

44:39 It's just, it's fun. It's the best therapy in the world, I think, man, really is. Yeah, no question. We used to go up to Goshen, Virginia, a little hunting property, and had a river that came off of that. And it was great. Most of what we caught was red eye, to be honest. But there were trout in there as well. It was just, I don't know, I loved it. I actually enjoy fishing, though. Like you said, a lot of people enjoy catching. Yeah. Yeah. I need the story on what you're doing there because I have no idea what that is it's not a bong I thought you were going to light up a bong or something what is that deal I just made a that is a smoked old fashioned so yeah you've had old fashions before right so I got this little contraption you put wood chips in it looks like a bong because I'm looking at the camera angle I'm like, do they see that it's a drink?

45:48 Not weed. But yeah, so this is cherry wood. It infuses your drink. You get a nice oaky flavor with the bourbon. It goes pretty well. I have never seen anything like that before in my life. Oh, man. I used to bartend in college. So you come out here, dude. Yeah. You like the ladies like the espresso martinis with the creme valet top and stuff. I do all that. So you get the wives nice and tipsy. It gives me a chance to go fishing and hunting. So, yeah, my bar is always being used in some way.

46:28 There it is right there. That's right, man. Some good cherries in there. Yeah, at least for me, it helps cut down some of the sweetness, you know? It does. I do love a Manhattan. just something wonderful about that combination you know but uh yeah what are you using for bitters uh well i just used uh some orange bitters but i this stuff out of woodford woodford reserve makes it chocolate bitters oh my gosh is is so good um but um yeah i got i i have all kinds of stuff down here but yeah this is just some orange bitters i used you know little black cherries i don't use simple syrup i don't like sweet things like you said like i'd rather taste i just i that was blasphemy i just used uh william weller larue to make an old-fashioned but um it was was right by me so um i look you know it's my it's my favorite drink i like to actually like my coffee. I drink black.

47:38 I just like the taste and the natural bean and the natural bourbon. It's a good fun drink. Give me my dirt flavored water. That's all I want. That's it, man. As is, baby. Yeah. Maybe we'll get LX one of these days to drink Manhattan. Yeah, probably not. I'm good. Probably not. I got my water. I'm good with the water. and my girl beer once in a while. Yeah, girl beer. We'll get you some girl beer. Chick beer. What kind of chick beer do you like?

48:21 Corona Premier. I like it. It's smooth. It's not bad. That's what Mrs. Havoc drinks, and that's what I get lured into trying, and I'm like, hey, this ain't bad, I guess. yeah drinking water with a kick you know yeah that's all right yeah yeah it's refreshing that that that is for sure after a hot day you pop one of those things you can down that thing like like it was water i mean it really is it's very very refreshing you know it's low in carbs it's low calorie and and you know big big big piece there is my wife you know she she uh she doesn't get as plastered on those you know takes quite a few of them to get there so it's a good thing yeah put a little twist of lime in them and uh good to go i guess yeah another one and um blue moon makes a blue moon light that's a really good one that's really it's more of a you know put an orange in that it's good boat beer because i'm out in the sun all day long like i cannot i'm not drinking an old-fashioned on the boat like i've had that corona premiere that's good but if you want something a little more light it's only for like four percent alcohol it's not it's not heavy like but the the carb there's no carbs and calories in it either so hardly that's pretty that's a good one you might want to try that lx get an orange all right nice thank you for the suggestion i'm trying to yeah i feel believe it or not is a huge

50:00 thing right if you if you don't do it i mean it's good it's good but if you add that orange it really just it it changes the whole thing right the the whole flavor profile changes you get way more of what's in the beer when you taste it just from that little bit it's like uh bourbon right if you pour a neat bourbon if you really want to kick that flavor in grab yourself a pipette or something and add like two maybe three drops of water on you know on your bourbon and just let it sit give it a little stir and all of a sudden the flavors come alive i don't know why i have no idea the science behind it but it's a reality no it definitely opens up a bourbon right especially the hot ones that are like you know that william weller that's that's one 142 proof it does not drink it that's 140 i think that's 2017 that's hot right so um a couple drops of water and you know you get a more the viscosity is not leaving that he's still getting all the the palette notes and stuff like i i actually like when i had first quit war dragons i i would go to these distilleries and i took some certifications and like i'm not quite a sommelier but like i understand it where i get invited and get like actually

51:33 constructive feedback on on nice bourbon but um yeah those super hot ones you got to have an ice cube or something but like i said that 90 proof that 90 to 95 that's you know you could drink it neat all day and it's not gonna not gonna burn your throat up where you got blisters yeah yeah that really hot stuff i i typically tend to avoid it to be honest with you just because it's so hot i i don't i guess for me it's it it takes a away some of the enjoyment you know what i mean but i'll have to try it i'll have to try it uh i've never tried it with water added just neat and you know it's it's in it's really good fantastic it's just it has that that burn to me that just i don't find like when i was a teenager i loved that burn you know let's go party you know but nowadays that that just hurts i get you get i get heartburn ever since turning 30 right like yeah i hurt i gotta i gotta be mindful of what i eat and what i drink and how much i consume of everything so uh i'm i'm right there with you next stop is this it's coming yeah i'm i have some i got some i got white i got gray hairs some of them down here it's starting luckily like hasn't hit my head yet but it's a matter of time it probably is it's okay

53:07 yeah i just yeah you know i had i had a lot more color in my hair just just from like the summit to now now it's pretty much you know you look good man i was actually like you got a full set of hair like you look like a gq santa claus i don't know what is it that country like nah man you're aging pretty well well thank you thank you yeah bourbon the bourbon preserves you yeah yeah man so um you guys grow tomatoes i need to send some pictures yeah so we went a little crazy so we went from you know living in somewhat we had in half an acre at in wilmington and we had um a couple beds uh we grew zucchini you know tomatoes and we moved out here we had all this land and uh like what do we do with it so we're like let's create these like 20 by 50 foot beds and like we burned holes we have the the landscaping fabric with the drip tape irrigation i need to send you pictures it's done right it's done right but we have over 200 tomato plants uh every year yeah and uh we have we haven't had really much luck with the big you know the beef eaters the big ones but the cherry tomatoes you pick a you pick

54:42 a five gallon bucket every day like i give them away like i make i make big giant batches of salsa and stuff so um yeah we grow tomatoes really well zucchini like um cucumbers out the wazoo and and okra have you ever grown okra you can't kill this will be my first year growing okra i i've not historically liked it growing up growing up uh you know split family so i lived with my dad and uh he he loved okra but he liked to just boil it whole and then serve it on a plate and as a child, the only thing I remember is just tons of snot. So after that, it was just like, yeah, I don't want anything to do with this. But my wife and I, we went to Florida. Our oldest lives there. And, you know, the LXs live there as well. So we went down there and one of my colleagues lives down there and we went over to their house for dinner. First night we were down there and they're Indian and they served up this dish with okra and I was like oh great now I've got to eat it you know what I mean because you know southern raised you get sat at a table and someone puts food in front of you what do you do you eat it you don't have to ask for seconds but you better finish your plate so I started eating it and I was like wait a second that's okra and you know

56:17 we started talking about it and you know shared the recipe with me and I was like okay now I'm gonna grow okra yep so yeah and i'm not big on fried foods i do like fried okra but you know i try and avoid fried foods in general now and so that's off the table for me so i was kind of like yeah no reason to grow something i'm not gonna eat you know but now i will yeah no it's uh i'm right there with you as how it's prepared because it it can be pretty slimy right me you pickle it Oh my gosh, it's so good. The whole thing, don't just cut it up. Just pickle the whole thing. Next, if you come down, I'll give you a few jars.

57:00 I'll mail you some LX. You let me know what you think. But yeah I got a sweet a hot and then just a mild But I love it And you can kill it like you don even like i planted half an acre like an acre of it and i never watered it like last year and it just grew i had like seven foot bushes and you have to pick it like every daggone day and it like the one thing i hate about it you have to wear long sleeves and gloves because there's something on it, like you'll itch. It feels like you're in poison ivy. Yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy. So, you know, when the girls don't do their chores or something, I'm like, you know, threaten them with picking okra. I'm like, you're going to pick okra.

57:49 But no, so yeah, I have, we grow too much. We like to give it away. It's just, it's fun, man. Like trying to live our best lives, but you know, it's, it's doable. You know, if I, the world shut down like i i could survive like i'm pretty sure i could um just the resource of the land you know the hunting the fishing the trapping uh you know that's that's my world i did that way before war dragons like i understand i was you know i'm an eagle scout right so like even at 14 15 like i'd i'd hike and wilderness survival and then you know have some military background um but it's just fun man you know living off the land i'm not worried about it you know go go black out i'd love it you know let's do it yeah isn't that an awesome feeling too knowing that you know you just it it's like okay yeah it would be tough it would be different it would be weird but you'd be okay yeah no we've we've done blackout assimilations in my next 48 hours a weekend i'm shutting power off like lab we're gonna filter our water we're gonna yeah you know that's you know be prepared that's the motto right so you know i just i like that in my all my kids like i could take them out hunting you know they're they're proficient in archery right we could go shoot a dozen rabbits and you know make a nice stew and they don't have to clean

59:25 it they're they're you know nine and twelve right so they're young you know so you know you teach them you teach them young they know how to take care of themselves and you know it's all about discipline but the ability to do it so it's i i love it you know i'd love to eventually be on one of those wilderness survival movies or the shows right i think i can do it like neck not naked and afraid because i'd embarrass i'd embarrass all the i'd embarrass all the other men but uh like alone oh dude i i think uh i think i could do it man i really do yeah i don't know so i know i know i could i could survive um with the goal of getting out of that situation no problem uh the idea of being there for 90 120 days not yeah i wouldn't no interest in doing that right but yeah you know knowing you could if if you were in that situation you have the skills to you know be okay until you get out of there with the goal of getting out of there yeah i i see that is a worthwhile endeavor.

1:00:40 Yeah. You ever go hunting, Alex? I've tried it. Never really caught anything or never, you know, shot anything. We sat there in the tree for a while and it was freezing cold and we went deer hunting. Me and my buddy and, yeah, just on one doe strolling by and that was it. I'm like, yeah, that probably isn't for me. Sounds like a lot of what hunting is. Being cold and quiet and just, it's one of those things, though, you get in there not as much in a tree stand because, I don't know, at least for me, I'm always, you know, like, you know, I don't want to get too loose up in the tree stand and end up hanging off my tether or something, right?

1:01:35 But, you know, in a blind especially, man, you get into this almost, you know, meditative state, you know, and it's just, it's insane. It really is. You know, everything goes calm and quiet, you know, and I think for me, like the first 10, 15 minutes in, my head's just pinging crap through it. You just ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And then at some point, it all just quiets down. And everything becomes focused. And that's when it just, oh man, it's awesome. It really is. I love it. I try it again I just I really don have anybody to really show me the ropes and you know like it kind of kind of hard starting from not knowing nothing And I mean at the time you know like, I had somebody that I could have called that would have, you know, told me what to do with it if we actually got anything.

1:02:31 But at this point, I don't even know anybody. Nowadays, you just hang it and get it to the processor. Yeah. That's my way of doing it. it is a little yeah but um lx man come up like the next time you you you've hung out with havoc like i'll take you out hunting like both you guys like i process i actually pro i have a whole processing facility at my house i just butchered a whole cow like from starting to finish i i bought the cow we did we dispatched it we i built a a walking cooler like i got a whole video on it it's pretty badass so we hung it for 30 days you know we grinded it up it's you know i've done bear i do bear deer hogs like everything man so it's it's pretty cool like i could teach you how to make uh you know smoke sausage how to cure meat where it'll stay for you know keep for a year right so it's it's fun man like i i like wilderness survival like extreme so um i have probably 3 000 acres that i can hunt just just around my house so anything you want bear you know turkey i got duck impoundments it's it's like a hunter's haven out here even you avoc you're close anytime you get the itch to come out and hunt let me know man i i'd love i love just taking

1:04:03 people that haven't had that experience in teaching them how to do it. It's kind of... I've shot more animals than I can... I don't need to shoot anymore. I'd rather put somebody else on their first turkey or first deer or first bear. I guide. So, yeah. Awesome. Yeah, man. Alright, so getting about time to wrap things up. so one question for you real quick one person only one who would you give a shout out to in the war dragons community can we do the opposite of a shout out i can like a like an f you we could do that after the shout out let's do the shout out first oh geez you put me on the spot i actually planned the answer to that what i just said um oh gosh there's there's too many man like i've been on so many teams like i've networked with so many players there's not just one and the person i'd shout out they don't even play anymore right shout them out anymore anyway oh i don't know man um hmm oh geez i guess vip from war enforcers i trained her as a as a little minion of mine

1:05:38 um but yeah she's still we still stay in con uh contact she's a good good person man not not Not the favorite to some, but I know she's a good, she's a, she's a great person. Oh yeah. I want to hear who gives this for you. Yeah. She was in her. And I could go suck a giant tomato. I don't. Dude, I, I was on dread. Even when I was on dread, he was, he was such a dick to me. Because I was the leader of EQ and here's the irony. He was on EQ. and he just he always gave me grief but um yeah panda if you're listening i hope you choke on a big giant cucumber i love you buddy and we're yeah it's fine it's all it's all fun and games that's what war dragons used to be you know just that camaraderie the banner like you get on d1 lc right you just talk shit no one got banned now you it's so politically correct man like you yeah yeah i just had one of my officers get banned for like it was a two-week ban because she corrected some some douche in lc she sat him straight but it's it's gotten out of control man people can't speak their minds i'm like i'm staying out of lc because like you remember our days like 2018-19

1:07:13 like it was unfiltered you had that one guy one have have never engaged in any smack talking whatsoever in like jeff ever yeah no i used to i loved it i loved it Who was that one guy Demon He went by Demon Oh yeah He's been for age for hours and never got banned. But, yeah, it's a different game now. PG, I hope you listen and, you know, let's talk. I got good ideas. That's a guy that would be on a team for maybe a week at the most before he got kicked off. I think he was probably on, like, every almost every team on there just just to get in league uh league chat he was but uh that was fun the most fun i ever played on this game was actually on dreadnought it was you know right when the avatars released and we were going we were going after it and no mercy order royal road and um i was i was actually on the atlas um officer committee with dreadnought like we go in we'd plan raids like how do how do we evict you know royal road how do we get to these castles and at that time like you remember world domination or uh world d alliance i think so yeah yeah yeah oh yeah yeah so i tied like all of the dread cronies together in one alliance i'm like what's your pain point they're like we can't get to these castles i'm like why why can't you like we don't network with other smaller teams and flighty at the time she's like yeah you need to

1:08:50 listen to lumber like he has we can make this happen and um you know i i coordinated i opened up castles and they were able to actually evict and you know we disbanded no mercy order like we evicted royal road but that that was my prime that's when i was like I'm quitting the game. We did the impossible. I'm done. And, um, but I'm back and I, you know, I'm having fun. I'd love, I, yeah, I'd love for it to get, I don't know. I have, I have high hopes. I'd love to relive that, but I don't think, you know, global one team dreadnought. I was there for like 10 months, loved it. Great people, like the most solid organization you'd ever see.

1:09:38 they just ran a tight ship and I just really enjoyed it um I should have stayed retired that's my regret I should have like because I left I left there on fantastic terms I did and then one day I became John Wick and um you remember that I think Havoc you said you're John Wick. So I'm like, yeah, I guess there was a, there was a disagreement with somebody and, um, I told him to F off basically. So it is what it is. No hard feelings. The team itself is fantastic team. Um, I'd love for them to come back though. That would be fun. That would, that would be fun.

1:10:26 Yeah, it would for some, for some, it would be fun for others. maybe not so much but I still think that was a good season of my life I'm over it the beacons are lit Gondor calls for aid I'm sure Dread will come let's do it I said if Pocket Gems comes out with War Dragons 2 maybe we'll see has the bat light in his backyard it's like one of those super high powered ones and it's got the sickle in there instead of the bat in it? Flip the switch. That's all it's going to take.

1:11:10 Awesome. Okay, so who's one person you'd shout out in real life? Oh, guys. Real life? I'm going to get a little... You don't have to give a name. You don't have to give a name, but you could just say this person is, you know, whatever, you know. a real person, right? Person in your life. At some point in your life, you don't have to give a name, but you could say that was a teacher of mine, or it was a mechanic person, or it was a hitchhiker I picked up or whatever you want. I got one. Jesus Christ.

1:11:51 There you go. Amen. Jesus Christ. Yeah. He's still, he's still relevant in my life. So I can do that. Yeah. Me too. Awesome. All right. Well, I think that's about all the time we have for today. Thank you everyone for signing on with us and, you know, hope you enjoyed the show. If you did, leave a thumbs up. If you don't, leave a thumbs down, leave a comment if you have any suggestions or ideas or something you'd like to see or hear. You know, I don't know, whatever. Do the thing, do the stuff and have a wonderful, wonderful rest of your day, wherever you may be. thanks for stopping by good seeing you again lumber i appreciate you too