The War That Didn't Happen Herman Forwood on Twilight of Democracy and the Empathy Cliff S3-EP14

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And the other part is actually, which is funny, in it, America kind of annexes Greenland.

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Again, I wrote it in Twitter.

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I wrote it way before.

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Are you working with The Simpsons out there doing stuff?

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Totally.

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Is it like life imitating art or what?

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Totally.

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so and well so i tell you like how actually i arrived at greenland because i thought oh it

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would be cool if actually

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All right, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Space Tomatoes podcast. Today we are joined by Herman Forwood, an author, podcaster, and student of history who explores current events through the lens of history. Welcome to the show, Herman.

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Thanks for having me.

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Awesome. So you, on the authorship piece, you have an interesting set of books, at least one of them for sure that, you know, I kind of dug into a little bit, which is, what is it, Twilight of Democracy?

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and it kind of poses some questions that are interesting ones and can you walk us through a

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little bit about what what brought you to decide to write that and and what gave you the idea to

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kind of pose that type of a question what is that question yeah yeah yeah it was a journey for sure

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and when actually some of my readers and friends are reading it now everybody's like oh why don't

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you write this? And I'm like, well, I started in like 2022 and wrote most of it 2023, 2024.

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So a lot of it actually came from, I wanted to explore the idea of, you know, we always talk

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about things and we say, oh, that's just politics, or we just say things, nobody means that. And I'm

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like, okay, what if we take a lot of the ideas we have today and somehow accept it and take it a

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couple steps further and see what really happens to the world, not just to us, not to our neighborhood

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or neighbors, but just what happens to the world. And so I went through just an exercise of, okay,

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how do I do that? Should I take the present tense? Should I, you know, explore the past? And then,

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you know, being a student of history, I'm like, okay, I know history very well, especially

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mid-century history. I'm like, okay, so what can I do? And I always, you know, was fascinated

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by these stories of what ifs, and not a lot of the butterfly effect, what ifs, but like,

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you know, major event, what ifs. So I, so I'm like, okay, let's just explore that. That's a

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very good thought experiment. And I'm like, okay, what if we, you know, we didn't experience

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World War II, we didn't experience just such disaster for the whole world, not just, you know,

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one region or like one country, but like, it impacted the whole world, you know, millions of

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innocent people died, Holocaust happened, all of that. I'm like, what if none of that happened?

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would we be in a better world would we be more empathetic less empathetic and you know just

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observing that we don't we don't have you know our empathy is going away empathy you know we have a

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lot for our neighbors or our neighborhood or our city but as when it goes you know 20 30 miles away

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it's just like the empathy just you know cliffs so i'm like okay so what would happen to the world

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you know, would we have a Marshall Plan to rescue Europe? You know, would Europeans be so nice to

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each other after the World War II ended and all of that? So I'm just going to, I'm like, okay,

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let's reimagine the whole world. And so that was like really the genesis of writing the book. It

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was just really a thought experiment and the whole historical fantasy and what happens to the world

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really came out of that. Just, you know, and a lot of it is like, I'm exploring it at a personal

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level that the protagonist and his family, you know, beyond that, you know, strange relationship,

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him and his brother, they're on the both sides of the aisle. So they have like, you know,

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very strange discussions. Then the countries, then the continents, then the blocks, you know.

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And so I'm exploring, I had to reimagine the whole world, like what would happen to Soviet

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Union, to Europe, to Commonwealth, to America, North America, South America. So I just like

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reimagined the whole world Like I had to like really is like does that make sense Because I wanted to make sense I wanted to be you know imaginable acceptable So I really spent a lot of time really re the world that way

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That's, I think it's an interesting take, you know, it harkens to that one, you know, thought,

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social thought experiment that a lot of people have, right? If you could go back in time and kill

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hitler when he was a baby right right and and you know i've you know that one for me is is one that

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i i pretty much have a solidified thought process on that and it goes something like this the world

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would not have been better if goebbels was the guy instead of hitler correct goebbels was there

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right so yeah no so so this is actually very i'm so glad you brought it up so i didn't want to do

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kill baby Hitler because that was has been done and you know Hitler no this and so I am get rid

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of Hitler in 1939 so he was in power for six years already Kristen Laugh happened already

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Jewish people were rounded up Poland was invaded Austria was annexed you know all of that happened

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so my idea was like no no they got so close to it and they averted so how would the world

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react like we were about to go into another giant war and last minute we were saved but we saw it

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coming um so i didn't want to do that and and also i said i set the time 1950 so i didn't do it now

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or like 60s or 70s i wanted to be everything very fresh because the reason all of it happened was

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like okay we are already forgetting 9-11 why a lot and i mean gen z does not even remember anything

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right? A lot of younger millennials don't even, you know, recall so much of it. So I just wanted

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to be fresh and say, okay, this atrocity happened. Would you still do it? Would you still get close?

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No, not do it. Would the world be a better place or is just going to be some other weird version of

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it? So all of it was intentional. I did try to do it 60s and 70s and I'm like, no, no, no, no.

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I need to bring it back a lot closer to actually it happening or about to happen.

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So very good point that you brought it up.

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So yeah, I wanted to clarify that.

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Yeah, no, that is really interesting stuff, I think.

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Definitely.

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And when you think about things like that, right, and if you move forward in history,

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you just see this, you see, okay, it's not the same.

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It may be not at the same escalation, etc.

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And maybe part of that is just being able to recognize the patterns that are evolving a little bit better than we were back then.

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You know, faster access to information, things of that nature.

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But you look through history and these events just continue to unfold and continue and continue.

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So if you did remove one and everything was hunky dory and everyone was happy and peaceful, I mean, it's just just a decade and we're in Vietnam War and then Korea. And, you know, so it's like, I don't know, you know, it's an interesting thought experiment because would that have changed going forward? Or would it just made kind of the fairy dust sprinkled over things for a period of time before we just the machine started moving again?

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Yeah. So at the end, actually, that was the purpose of this book and my thought experiment. Really, it was not to re-examine something from 90 years ago, 80 years ago. It was more for us to rethink what happened more recently or is happening now.

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and really

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so

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I'm going to come back to this

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the whole point is for us to

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think about things because I don't

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believe people

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spend enough time

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thinking about

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what's happening

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it's not their fault

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a lot of people are surviving

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they have two jobs

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it's all legitimate

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I'm not trying to

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put them down

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They have reasons to do that. But my goal as a writer is to just get the attention of people who can spare some time to think about things, to think about it.

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So going back to your point, ultimately the goal of this book was, again, not to re-examine what happened in the middle of last century, but it's what's happening more recently.

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So to your point about Vietnam War, like winning the hearts and minds, right?

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That was the biggest thing.

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That was a turning point in Vietnam War that people realized that is like, oh, my God, a lot of people are suffering.

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It's not just, you know, anti-communism movement.

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And for the longest time through 60s and 70s and part of the 80s people kind of remember that but we forgot it very quickly Then it comes the first desert storm and let go get Saddam And a lot of people suffered

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Then go the second, then 9-11 happens. Okay, let's go kick some ass. We are very angry. Some people

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did us, you know, huge harm. Okay, let's go get him. Messed up the whole region. Hundreds of

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thousands of people died, both in Afghanistan and second desert storm, right? Okay, to your point,

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that was 2003, right? Second desert storm happened 2003, not too long ago, relatively speaking.

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but we forgot now we are in Iran again nobody talks about what's happening to to the Iranians

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90 million people are suffering not a single mainstream media is talking about it so we are

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back to to your point where Vietnam was not of course the same scale to your point it doesn't

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repeat itself, but there are a ton of lessons to be learned, but we don't seem to learn those lessons.

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Yeah. I think a lot of people don't really think about it because maybe

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there's, they feel like they're, I mean, my, my personal opinion, I don't think there's much I

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can do about it personally. It's just going to play out however it's going to play out. And I

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really don't have much saying it either way, whether I like it or not. Absolutely. I mean,

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a lot of people, I guarantee you feel that way. I mean, but Vietnam war, you had less of a voice.

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There was no social media. You couldn't, you know, get your friends to be on your side.

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It was a lot worse. So people took it to the streets, you know, Hayton, Ashbury, Berkeley,

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you know, you name it. People just came out swinging. But yes, absolutely. I think a lot

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of people feel disgusted. But to your point, it's like there's nothing I can do. There's nothing I

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can do. I feel a lot more passionate about it. And I don't feel like there's anything I can do.

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If you have like two jobs and you're living a real life, of course, you're going to feel less empowered. I totally agree with that.

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Yeah, it's hard to make time to get out and protest in mass, you know, especially if you're talking about doing something like that. You know, it takes planning, preparations. People need to actually band together and then commit to, you know, days of action.

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and it's difficult, you know, and I think you see at least, you know, in my limited view,

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you do see a lot of outcry on social media. But, you know, from my perspective, that has

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like single digit percent of the of the actual impact that physical protests on mass really have,

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because you can't deny that you can't say these are all bots there they are human beings sitting

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in you know the square at washington you know trying to let the leadership know we don't want

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this this is this is enough um and i think people people see social media as their best platform for

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for their voice for things like this when really it's it's probably one of the worst ways you'd

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probably get better results having people mass mail, like physical letters into the body's politic.

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Correct.

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How about your favorite thing, Havoc? Get out and vote.

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That's how you make a difference, right?

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Which people are not going to do.

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Well, you know, and that's another thing.

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We've had this, you know, we've talked about this a number of times, but people are disenfranchised.

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The representatives don't represent.

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you get sold one you know set of you know campaign promises and then they all disappear the second

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they're in and so people are large you know large numbers of of people especially the young people

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are like there's no point why would i do that yeah you know and that's that's a pretty scary thing

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and the feedback loop is like oh your vote doesn't matter so it's kind of like it's a self

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fulfilling prophecy a lot of it, right? I mean, subliminally, a lot of folks get that message that

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your vote doesn't really matter. You know, the politics is going to do what they're doing. You

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know, you're a little guy. So it's kind of like, oh, you see, everybody's talking about it. So

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might as well. Well, I mean, it's even to the point now where, you know, I mean, at this point,

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it's like that wouldn't matter at all.

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Someone,

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an individual took unilateral action.

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That's it.

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It literally is that simple.

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There's no,

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there's Congress hasn't done anything about this one way.

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Good or bad.

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You know,

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they did it like a,

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a vote that was mainly just,

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you know,

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a paper vote.

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I mean,

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it's a feel good.

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Hey,

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we don't,

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we don't want you doing this,

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but we don't have any way of stopping you because we're not going to,

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you know bring you know bring back the War Powers Act Correct So yeah And to Alex earlier point you know bring back the war powers act correct so yeah and and to alex earlier point um you know i mean social media people just post stuff and all of that i don know how much of it

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is genuine i think a lot of it is also like feel good oh like i said something i'm like you're not

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gonna do anything about gaza you're not gonna do anything about iran it's just like you want to tell

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your friends, you're compassionate. And but are you are you gonna, are you gonna write to anybody?

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No, that's writing to my politician. Just emailing something is a lot harder. Like I'm just going to

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post something people say, you're such a good guy or good gal. And then I'm just going to use it for

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talking point in our next, you know, wine party. I feel I feel a lot of that kind of disingenuine,

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kind of like posting in action. So I'm not saying that I am Mother Teresa. And I, you know, I do a

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lot, but I just see a lot of that as well. I don't post any of that because I'm like, okay, either I

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got to do something and post about it. I'm not going to post about it and not do anything about

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it. I write to my politicians, to your point, more than anybody I know. So I like bang under the doors.

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I call them and all of that. I don't go right on social media and I'm like, oh, I did that because

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I'm such a good guy. But you know, we live in where we live, right? Social media stars.

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yeah so i i know for me i i'm i'm really like not the political guy at all like i'm just

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i don't know i just i've never been my thing and and i've just kind of always thought about it as

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who's ever in there who's ever on the ticket running for whatever they just seem kind of like

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two sides of the same coin that are maybe wearing different color ties and they're they're going to

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do whatever they're going to do to push the machine that's pushing them to do whatever it

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is that's going to happen anyway. And I mean, that's just kind of how I feel about it.

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Yeah. They're just doing it. It's a different flavor of the same thing. And, you know, in a way,

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that's why I'm like, I need to just be more, write more because I cannot, I'm not a big

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influencer with millions of followers to really influence people. I'm like, I can just do it at

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a micro dose. I started writing essays about these issues, you know, it get like, you know,

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dozens or so readers. So he keeps climbing up. I'm like, okay, I'm, you know, talking to at least,

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you know, hundreds of people through my essays. I'm like, okay, I need to do more. So that's why

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I started writing, you know, fiction and to just like, okay, let's examine these things. And I'm

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like, okay, now tens of thousands of people are reading my book. I'm like, okay, so I'm making,

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because I always thought the thoughts need to be,

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or experiments need to be a lot more in depth.

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We can just like tweet, you know,

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whatever characters is now 280.

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But no, we need to talk about things

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a little bit more in depth.

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And I know it's a reverse of what the society is going

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with tech talk mentality and all of that.

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But I'm like, no, we need to examine these things.

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Um, so I really, in my first book, I didn't do a whole lot of it because my goal was to write a,

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a thriller book that was never done before. So I spent a lot of my time there, but I started in it.

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I'm like, Oh, let's, you know, talk about a little bit about religion and actual coverup and all of

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that. So I'm like, Oh, I like that. Then my second book, I'm like, let's go crazy. My third book that,

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which is basically in pre-order right now. I'm like, let's examine some social concepts that

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everybody seemed to like and, you know, kind of normal. So I'm like, let's take those a couple

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steps further. And I'm like, is that what we really want? Or is it just another ridiculous

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concept that we've gotten used to and we just live with um so i'm really enjoying this kind of

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like thought experiment in an in-depth way not just you know 280 characters yeah i think that

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is important as well yeah like we don't we have not we're considering maybe doing it again

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we did for a little while is doing shorts on youtube uh and i don't know you know for me it's

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the long form content is where you know the magic happens the shorts are just little sound bites out

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of a much longer deeper more involved conversation and i think you know there is a lot of you know

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i guess personally my own experience you know i used to be able to send like a 20 minute youtube

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to someone and they'd be like oh let me check that out nowadays you send a 20 minute they're

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like dude i don't have time for all that 30 seconds exactly like if it's over 90 seconds

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you lost me i'm gone if you're less than 40 years old you're not going to watch more than a minute

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at the most and even that's even that's pressing it yeah oh yeah but so what do you what do you

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think is this has always been striking to me, right? Um, you know, and I get the cheering for sides, right? I get

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that. We all have this, you know, sense of tribalistic pride for existing. Just because

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I was born on this physical, you know, this, you know, geographic location, then obviously I'm,

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you know, proud, yada, yada. And, you know, so we all have that. But one thing that's always

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been striking to me is there, it's just seems like so many people are just completely apathetic

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to the to the idea that tens of thousands of innocent people are just dying they just disappear

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and it's like how does one actually sit there and go yeah that's a good thing and that to me i've

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never really understood right that's that's not like i mean just imagine an entire football stadium

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and being eradicated at once, just gone, in the course of five minutes.

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People would lose their minds, but for some reason when it's Gaza or it's Tehran, it's fine.

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Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's a little bit of a Thanos in all of us, right?

227
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It's just kind of we don't care or we think it's, you know, maybe it's not that bad.

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But, I mean, distance definitely makes that happen.

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Even, you know, people are not as empathetic to another city or state, you know.

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I mean, California, everybody loves to hate California.

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I'm like, why?

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Like, what has California done to you?

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Like, we're all living our lives, right?

234
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Well, I used to live there and I could tell you why.

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But that's a different story.

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Well, again, I mean, I don't hate anybody who lives in Alabama.

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like you know they don't impact my life at all i don't think about these things as much but like

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i love california i love california it's a it has a lot of issues but i'm like hating where you live

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like but i mean but i don't i didn't like i didn't like the there there were again we go back to the

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body politic right at the end of the day you know the cost kept going up and you know life wasn't

241
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becoming the American dream seemed to just be like the carrot on the stick,

242
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you know, and I'm the donkey and I, I'm trying to get the carrot,

243
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but every time I get close to the carrot, the carrot just moved.

244
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Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I feel like that's everywhere in America.

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It's not just California.

246
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No, you know,

247
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maybe there are richer people here that they make us feel worse about

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ourselves. I mean, yeah, maybe income in parity is worse for whatever reason it

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is. I guess the point I was trying to get at is just like the, you know, the empathy comes with

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the distance. And at the same time, it's very easy to just vilify people. And when you once you get

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used to vilifying others, you're just okay, different religion, different skin tone,

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different language is just like when you just get used to vilifying and not respecting. So it's very

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easy not to feel anything about people in gaza or you know whatever it is it's also not really a

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new thing either right so california actually did something like this i think they were the first

255
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to do it in world war ii and it was called the japanese internment cap camps and they weren't

256
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they weren't distant they were your neighbors they were your friends but that was vilifying

257
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vilifying yeah vilifying a certain group the chinese internment camp you know in the bay

258
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area they have had that yeah exactly yeah yeah and so it's it's just one of those things we we

259
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seem to just we we throw away our empathy and our sympathy for um you know in some cases entire

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you know classes of people uh when we feel like you know maybe that i don't know we were told

261
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there's a boogeyman under the bed. Yeah, it's very easy, right? I mean, every culture has done it.

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They continue to do it. So, I mean, it goes back to your question. I mean, it's actually not very

263
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difficult. And, you know, in my books, I try to really dive into that. Actually, it's funny you

264
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ask that question, because what is empathy? Empathy for whom? Why? When? All of that. So,

265
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So empathy is actually the core premise of, especially my second book.

266
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No, I think it runs through most of my books.

267
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Because at the end, that's what is the most important thing in our lives,

268
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just how much we care about each other.

269
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We lift each other so we all live in a better society.

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So empathy is definitely that.

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What that means to people, does it mean like throwing money at the problem

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or giving them money or actually educating

273
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or just helping whatever that means The core premise of Jesus Christ you know every government is supposed to do that for its people So what that empathy means is really

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I try to examine that because at the end, that's what matters. And we forget what empathy is.

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Everybody says, oh, I'm a good Christian, but screw those guys. I'm like, well, I don't know,

276
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Are you a good Christian if you hate just another skin tone people?

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Those are the things we really need to keep talking about,

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otherwise it just becomes background noise.

279
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Well, you know, Jesus did say, you know, feed the poor

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and help the hungry and the homeless and things like that,

281
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except if they're these people, didn't he, I think?

282
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No? I don't think so.

283
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you you've got a good point there sorry alex i didn't mean to interrupt no i just i think there's

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just a certain percentage of people that just don't care at all they you know like even beyond

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the politics like there could be a hurricane blow through florida and you know there's people on the

286
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internet well you shouldn't have lived there you knew it was going to happen like it's your fault

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that that happened and then you know the other portion of the people are like it's just out of

288
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sight out of mind if it doesn't affect them personally they just don't care either way

289
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I will admit to a small amount of that. In North Carolina, we have this chain of barrier islands that's called the Outer Banks. They are all sandbars. And I kid you not, they are sandbars. They're there. The wave action creates these barrier islands, kind of protects the inlets and stuff. And people decided to build houses on them.

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I've seen them. And they get wiped out all the time.

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And the roads and bridges and all this stuff gets wiped out. And then they come to the rest of North Carolina and go, we need to raise taxes. And I'm like, oh, no, no, like, no, what are you living on a sandbar for?

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so i do now that being said i think it's a big difference between florida right because in this

293
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case it's literally a sandbar that if you watched it over the course of you know any appreciable

294
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amount of time they have to continuously have barges out there pumping sand to rebuild the

295
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areas of the islands they're naturally eroding so it's it's not even like it would be stable on

296
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its own like it's just the worst place you can build a house worse than those cliffs on the side

297
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of California there on like the Pacific Coast Highway.

298
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That one's great.

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If you go to the beach in Laguna Beach and you look up over the cliffs, you'll see fences

300
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that are literally jutting off like 10 feet, 8 feet off the edge of the cliff.

301
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That fence went all the way and closed and there was room at the end of the cliff.

302
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You know what I mean?

303
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But they've got that view and it's worth a lot of money.

304
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Exactly.

305
00:28:58,065 --> 00:28:58,385
Yeah.

306
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And my insurance premium will pay for that to, you know, cover their loss.

307
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Yeah.

308
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So, I mean, to your point, it's like very easy to go from having like somebody is just so needy and they cannot, you know, take care of themselves to just, you know, you can go zero to, you know, 100 miles in like a second.

309
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So, yeah.

310
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So, and that happens all the time.

311
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And we don't know a lot of times when to stop ourselves.

312
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Um, so, you know, I actually always take a, um, you know, stab at those personalities in my book,

313
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you know, always, you know, I don't know if you guys know Megan Kelly, um, you know, she used to

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be on Fox and now she's doing her own thing. Uh, I mean, she always claims that she's such a good

315
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Christian and, you know, she, this and that, but she's just so mean to everybody. I'm like,

316
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you know i'm not a religious person but like i don't think any like you want so i mean say you're

317
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not a good christian don't say anything but and you be mean i mean i'm fine with that but don't

318
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say you're just such a good christian and at the same time being just so mean to everybody

319
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i mean i'm being mean because you know i i part of it is funny sometimes you know i'm not mean

320
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100% of the time, but that's her job, just to be mean with everybody. It's not a bit anymore.

321
00:30:26,165 --> 00:30:29,625
Right. Yeah, it's no longer just a TV personality.

322
00:30:29,625 --> 00:30:37,605
Correct. Yeah. So, yeah, I hope I answered your question about, you know, empathy, because it is

323
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so complex. And again, it goes back a little bit to what we were just discussing, that

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people just, it doesn't affect them. So they're like, they have their own lives to live.

325
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And so it's very hard for them to have this kind of empathy for others when they're just like,

326
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you know, they're drowning themselves. So definitely to your point, Alex is, is, is a

327
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valid point. And I do examine those things, but I think a lot of it, what I really dive into is the

328
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wealthy and the powerful and people in governments that I often think about and I use them in my books that why are you so apathetic So because they are the power We don have a lot of power You and I feel sorry for

329
00:31:25,178 --> 00:31:31,818
somebody who just got flooded or not. Yes, we can feel bad, you know, prayers and all of that. But

330
00:31:31,818 --> 00:31:37,878
those people have the power and they just don't want to do anything like killing, stopping the

331
00:31:37,878 --> 00:31:45,038
killing in Gaza or Iran or, you know, Sudan or whatever. We have no power, but those guys do.

332
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So why aren't you doing anything? Don't you have empathy? You made billions because of us and the

333
00:31:52,258 --> 00:31:58,278
world and all of that. So just do a little bit. So, you know, fewer people die or suffer. So to

334
00:31:58,278 --> 00:32:03,338
me, they are more at fault or responsible than, you know, us regular people.

335
00:32:03,338 --> 00:32:12,898
so you you lived in the middle east for for some time yes yeah um all my basically up to high school

336
00:32:12,898 --> 00:32:20,738
years yes what do you think what what are some of the things that that you know people that you know

337
00:32:20,738 --> 00:32:30,418
after living here just get completely wrong uh people i am here get wrong about that region

338
00:32:30,418 --> 00:32:36,198
things that work here don't work everywhere

339
00:32:36,198 --> 00:32:38,098
oh yeah

340
00:32:38,098 --> 00:32:39,998
I think that's the

341
00:32:39,998 --> 00:32:42,438
I mean I remember 2003

342
00:32:42,438 --> 00:32:43,478
when

343
00:32:43,478 --> 00:32:45,218
was it 2003

344
00:32:45,218 --> 00:32:47,958
it was a little bit earlier that

345
00:32:47,958 --> 00:32:49,978
George W. Bush

346
00:32:49,978 --> 00:32:52,198
was saying that

347
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oh all you need in

348
00:32:53,958 --> 00:32:56,178
Palestine is free

349
00:32:56,178 --> 00:32:58,018
election and

350
00:32:58,018 --> 00:32:59,278
everything will be solved

351
00:32:59,278 --> 00:33:08,618
and then they elected Hamas and there's like well not that I'm like you literally said all you need

352
00:33:08,618 --> 00:33:15,918
is free election and it was a free and fair election and people voted for Hamas for whatever

353
00:33:15,918 --> 00:33:20,758
reason you know because they had the money they were like you know giving people money and then

354
00:33:20,758 --> 00:33:26,658
getting support you know I'm not saying that they were legit but people did vote for him

355
00:33:26,658 --> 00:33:28,218
It's the same here

356
00:33:28,218 --> 00:33:30,018
Yes

357
00:33:30,018 --> 00:33:32,098
In a different way

358
00:33:32,098 --> 00:33:34,078
Of course very different

359
00:33:34,078 --> 00:33:34,958
But you know

360
00:33:34,958 --> 00:33:37,858
I guess the point

361
00:33:37,858 --> 00:33:40,018
It was like a little bit before that

362
00:33:40,018 --> 00:33:42,638
That he thought a free election

363
00:33:42,638 --> 00:33:44,558
Western style

364
00:33:44,558 --> 00:33:46,298
Is the solution to Palestine

365
00:33:46,298 --> 00:33:48,278
To get fixed and it got worse

366
00:33:48,278 --> 00:33:50,078
And we're living with that

367
00:33:50,078 --> 00:33:52,518
Consequence right now

368
00:33:52,518 --> 00:33:55,238
26-7 years later

369
00:33:55,238 --> 00:33:58,458
so that's

370
00:33:58,458 --> 00:33:59,618
to answer your question

371
00:33:59,618 --> 00:34:02,478
and I'm not saying that free election

372
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is bad, democracy is bad

373
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but everything

374
00:34:06,398 --> 00:34:08,558
is an evolution, like any country

375
00:34:08,558 --> 00:34:09,298
this country

376
00:34:09,298 --> 00:34:12,138
was built on the first amendment

377
00:34:12,138 --> 00:34:12,998
the first

378
00:34:12,998 --> 00:34:16,438
journalists after the declaration

379
00:34:16,438 --> 00:34:17,498
ended up in jail

380
00:34:17,498 --> 00:34:20,418
Jefferson had to come and free

381
00:34:20,418 --> 00:34:21,958
them from the jail

382
00:34:21,958 --> 00:34:23,478
to write good stuff about

383
00:34:23,478 --> 00:34:30,398
you know, the Republic again. So, I mean, so that was the, you know, a form of democracy back then.

384
00:34:30,398 --> 00:34:37,998
So every country needs to go through their process, but it's not just like, oh, we are doing everything perfectly here.

385
00:34:38,078 --> 00:34:40,558
Just adopt that. I'm like, not that simple.

386
00:34:42,078 --> 00:34:49,298
Yeah, we actually had a gentleman, Rick Hoppe, on a number of episodes ago.

387
00:34:49,298 --> 00:35:06,618
And one of the things that we keyed in on is we're so keen, at least in statement, right? I'm not going to talk about our actions because they don't match, but in statement, we're so keen on, well, they need freedom, right?

388
00:35:06,618 --> 00:35:16,118
And here's the problem with that is what we see as freedom, you can't just boilerplate template that onto someone else.

389
00:35:16,678 --> 00:35:25,778
You know, especially in some of these countries where you do have, you know, there's quite a good deal of religion involved in government.

390
00:35:26,178 --> 00:35:34,038
So what we see as freedom, they see as, you know, sin and, you know, just not good.

391
00:35:34,038 --> 00:35:40,858
and what you know we like to say but no you need to do it this way and what we seem to lack is

392
00:35:40,858 --> 00:35:48,238
the ability to go back and say what does freedom look like to you yeah let us help you get there

393
00:35:48,238 --> 00:35:56,518
right instead of no you need this this is freedom yeah i'm so let's go back to history

394
00:35:57,018 --> 00:35:58,118
Lessons learned, right?

395
00:35:59,558 --> 00:36:09,998
And going back to Iran, you know, in 1979, I mean, Shah's regime was not a real democracy,

396
00:36:09,998 --> 00:36:12,738
but it was a lot closer to democracy than today.

397
00:36:13,658 --> 00:36:17,118
Their own version, you know, good or bad was in it.

398
00:36:17,958 --> 00:36:45,091
People did want a more structured and religious country Khomeini came back he was a populist People free and fair election 99 of people voted for the Islamic Republic And they rejected somebody who was trying to

399
00:36:45,091 --> 00:36:50,151
go towards more like a Western style democracy, whatever version of Shahs.

400
00:36:50,831 --> 00:36:52,511
So they did do that.

401
00:36:52,911 --> 00:36:55,751
So people are wrong, right?

402
00:36:57,051 --> 00:36:58,111
So what is that?

403
00:36:58,171 --> 00:36:59,831
So that's why it's just so complex.

404
00:36:59,951 --> 00:37:06,191
Just analyzing that whole mess should give a lot of people some sort of a pause that,

405
00:37:06,571 --> 00:37:09,171
you know, not everything, just carbon copy and send it over.

406
00:37:10,011 --> 00:37:13,531
I mean, look at the democracy of Northern Europeans.

407
00:37:13,951 --> 00:37:18,731
So do we say, oh, we don't want to have any relationships with the Nordic countries because

408
00:37:18,731 --> 00:37:26,771
they love social democracy. Norway has all the money in the world. They're not a burden on us.

409
00:37:26,911 --> 00:37:32,151
They have a lot of the oil. They're investing it, capitalist style, and giving it to people.

410
00:37:32,151 --> 00:37:37,551
So we say, okay, Norway, we don't want to have any relationship because they're socialist.

411
00:37:38,791 --> 00:37:46,911
So who is the judge here to say what version of democracy is good or bad? Again, I'm trying to be

412
00:37:46,911 --> 00:37:49,531
a little bit provocative here.

413
00:37:49,611 --> 00:37:51,811
I'm not saying Islamic Republic of Iran

414
00:37:51,811 --> 00:37:53,871
is as legitimate as Norway,

415
00:37:54,191 --> 00:37:55,611
but there is like degrees of it.

416
00:37:55,811 --> 00:37:57,371
Maybe Norwegians look at us

417
00:37:57,371 --> 00:37:59,031
and just look at how corrupt they are.

418
00:37:59,591 --> 00:38:01,171
So who's right or who's wrong?

419
00:38:01,251 --> 00:38:03,371
Okay, who has more military power is right?

420
00:38:04,211 --> 00:38:05,391
It's just so complex.

421
00:38:05,471 --> 00:38:07,091
And again, my job is not to say

422
00:38:07,091 --> 00:38:08,451
what is right or wrong.

423
00:38:08,451 --> 00:38:10,871
My job is like through my essays,

424
00:38:11,091 --> 00:38:12,071
books, podcasts,

425
00:38:12,191 --> 00:38:14,171
I just want to make, you know,

426
00:38:14,411 --> 00:38:15,991
few thousand people who listen

427
00:38:15,991 --> 00:38:21,991
and read them to like, huh, let me next time, you know, when I go to some town hall, you know,

428
00:38:22,031 --> 00:38:26,551
questioning this politician, let me ask a couple of these questions. Maybe that snowballs. I mean,

429
00:38:26,551 --> 00:38:33,391
that's the best I can do. And, you know, but that's the journey for me to really get that going.

430
00:38:35,091 --> 00:38:41,151
Yeah, I tend to steer more towards the empathy side of things, right? Is, you know, look,

431
00:38:41,151 --> 00:38:47,031
if you asked all three of us what we wanted to have for lunch, there'd be three different answers.

432
00:38:47,351 --> 00:38:53,851
If you asked all three of us what our idea and concept would be for government, probably three

433
00:38:53,851 --> 00:38:58,911
completely separate answers. And if you asked all three of us what our idea and version of freedom

434
00:38:58,911 --> 00:39:05,551
is, probably three completely separate answers. Now you go to a different country that is,

435
00:39:05,551 --> 00:39:11,351
they're different they're culturally different they're in in the case of iran they're you know

436
00:39:11,351 --> 00:39:17,271
their civilization makes us look like the the child in the kiddie pool you know like oh we've

437
00:39:17,271 --> 00:39:23,911
got it all figured out you haven't even spent like one biftieth of the time on as a country

438
00:39:23,911 --> 00:39:31,991
on this planet as we have um and you know they they are you know they're largely a religious

439
00:39:31,991 --> 00:39:36,591
population, right? And that's not to say that they're all one, right? Because there are,

440
00:39:36,591 --> 00:39:41,391
you know, people of all walks of life that live there, believe it or not. You know, I think a lot

441
00:39:41,391 --> 00:39:47,211
of people associate, you know, Iran with, you know, kind of the, the, you know, outer regions

442
00:39:47,211 --> 00:39:52,711
of like Afghanistan or something. And it's, it's not, I mean, the country's, you know, beautiful

443
00:39:52,711 --> 00:39:58,471
and it's, it's, you know, got great cities and, you know, there's some of the most educated

444
00:39:58,471 --> 00:40:05,411
population in the world you know and and those are all beautiful things so you know maybe it's

445
00:40:05,411 --> 00:40:11,531
time we stop looking at things like we need to impose freedom on you but rather like well let

446
00:40:11,531 --> 00:40:18,371
me understand what is your concept of freedom if you voted 99.7 percent for religious fundamentalist

447
00:40:18,371 --> 00:40:23,591
leaders then maybe that's ingrained in your culture and what you want and that to you is part of

448
00:40:23,591 --> 00:40:29,211
freedom. Yeah. Right. And to your I think you brought up a very good point about like, you know,

449
00:40:29,211 --> 00:40:34,411
we are not going to agree on, you know, what to eat for lunch. It's like, OK, so what common ground

450
00:40:34,411 --> 00:40:43,211
do we have? Do we all like bread? So and cheese. So maybe we can just get pizza, even though that

451
00:40:43,211 --> 00:40:50,291
was not your first choice. So we need to find the pizza with these. And for some countries we have,

452
00:40:50,291 --> 00:41:03,571
I mean, the amount of disagreement with Saudi Arabia, Iran, I mean, from a religious standpoint, it's like, I mean, those countries are not very different now, you know, and then, but we are in bed with the Saudis.

453
00:41:03,691 --> 00:41:05,351
So is that bad?

454
00:41:05,531 --> 00:41:06,031
Good?

455
00:41:06,231 --> 00:41:06,771
Ugly?

456
00:41:07,371 --> 00:41:11,631
You know, again, it's just so complex.

457
00:41:11,631 --> 00:41:17,531
But the problem is, I still remember, again, 2003, just leading up to the Iraq war.

458
00:41:17,531 --> 00:41:20,711
I said, oh, we're just going to go liberate Iraq.

459
00:41:20,711 --> 00:41:24,771
And I'm like, you know, the minority Sunnis are in charge.

460
00:41:25,071 --> 00:41:30,411
You go liberate Iraq, then Shiites are going to be in charge and they're in bed with the

461
00:41:30,411 --> 00:41:31,331
Iranians.

462
00:41:31,611 --> 00:41:34,291
So you're cool with that?

463
00:41:35,091 --> 00:41:39,991
And I'm like, and it's not like we don't have smart people in the government, the leaders

464
00:41:39,997 --> 00:41:43,677
I'm like, I'm not listening to you because you're not telling me what I like to hear.

465
00:41:44,377 --> 00:41:45,317
Invade Iraq.

466
00:41:45,557 --> 00:41:46,517
Shiites took over.

467
00:41:47,217 --> 00:41:49,577
Sunnis were fighting for their life.

468
00:41:49,697 --> 00:41:52,057
They went to Fallujah.

469
00:41:53,737 --> 00:41:58,337
Nobody could invade Fallujah because they were just like, this is it.

470
00:41:58,737 --> 00:42:00,177
The Shiites are going to kill us.

471
00:42:00,477 --> 00:42:04,237
So we are making this a fort and we're just going to stay here as long as we can.

472
00:42:04,857 --> 00:42:05,657
Dragged on.

473
00:42:05,897 --> 00:42:07,777
Thousands of Americans died.

474
00:42:07,777 --> 00:42:16,637
I'm like, you could have asked, you could have accepted somebody telling you that majority of Iraqis are Shiites.

475
00:42:16,637 --> 00:42:21,597
So it's going to be a big mess. Nope, we are going in there. We're going to kick some ass.

476
00:42:21,677 --> 00:42:30,297
We're just angry about 9-11. We're just going to feel good, kind of like a social media typing approach to feeling good.

477
00:42:30,297 --> 00:42:39,297
And what a mess at $1.3 trillion later, all this debt from just Iraq war and Afghan war.

478
00:42:39,977 --> 00:42:40,857
I'm like, great.

479
00:42:41,177 --> 00:42:42,757
We got a lot out of it.

480
00:42:44,337 --> 00:42:44,897
Yeah.

481
00:42:45,057 --> 00:42:46,357
Well, you look at that.

482
00:42:46,517 --> 00:42:46,837
It's amazing.

483
00:42:47,817 --> 00:42:48,337
Yeah.

484
00:42:48,577 --> 00:42:55,517
Again, for some reason, we always go after this concept that if we eradicate this leadership, then things will be better.

485
00:42:55,717 --> 00:42:56,897
It's like Saddam.

486
00:42:57,057 --> 00:42:57,377
Okay.

487
00:42:57,417 --> 00:42:58,177
It didn't get better.

488
00:42:58,177 --> 00:42:59,177
You know, Gaddafi.

489
00:42:59,177 --> 00:43:04,317
Gaddafi it didn't get better you know and and you you could just keep going down the list and it's

490
00:43:04,317 --> 00:43:13,657
like exactly it didn't get better guys it's not working maybe a strategic shift here yeah it's

491
00:43:13,657 --> 00:43:20,397
it's just so weird to me I don't I well the problem is like when you talk and to come countries

492
00:43:20,397 --> 00:43:26,077
instead of like go bully them you're like well you're a weak leader I want somebody who yells

493
00:43:26,077 --> 00:43:33,237
and kick some ass. If you're just a talker, why do we have this military then? I think that's the

494
00:43:33,237 --> 00:43:38,577
big part of the problem. And you cannot win that. Because again, if you're going about living your

495
00:43:38,577 --> 00:43:44,777
life, Alex, I think the point you brought up is on point. You just, you don't have time to care

496
00:43:44,777 --> 00:43:50,237
for whatever reason it is. It just doesn't affect you. It doesn't, you know, any of that. So he's

497
00:43:50,237 --> 00:43:54,917
like, okay, so this guy is yelling and he's going to protect me. And this guy wants to talk. Maybe I

498
00:43:54,917 --> 00:44:01,337
vote for the guy who's yelling because he just sounds strong um i think we you know to

499
00:44:01,337 --> 00:44:07,077
oversimplification is another just like a big big problem that we have to deal with

500
00:44:07,077 --> 00:44:15,017
and it just you know keep keep affecting us yeah it's interesting you know your your book uh

501
00:44:15,017 --> 00:44:24,517
twilight of democracy the the front cover uh alex and i just recently had a conversation about a show

502
00:44:24,517 --> 00:44:30,997
we've seen and i'm sure you've heard of it maybe you've seen it or some of it uh it's called the

503
00:44:30,997 --> 00:44:39,937
man in the high castle absolutely i love that yeah and it kind of explores that kind of what if i

504
00:44:39,937 --> 00:44:47,057
guess that you know has been asked by probably everyone right and and it's it's interesting that

505
00:44:47,057 --> 00:44:54,097
the outcome isn't necessarily what you might have thought it would be correct yeah i mean a man in

506
00:44:54,097 --> 00:44:58,617
The High Castle and Plot Against America were definitely in the back of my head when I was

507
00:44:58,617 --> 00:45:04,377
writing this book. But at the same time, I'm like, I'm going nowhere near that. Because they

508
00:45:04,377 --> 00:45:09,177
explored something very differently, right? I mean, Man in the High Castle was written in the 50s. So

509
00:45:09,177 --> 00:45:15,117
everything was super fresh. I was born in the 70s, grew up in the 80s. So the impact of World War II

510
00:45:15,117 --> 00:45:21,597
was very different on me. And I learned the history very differently than that. So definitely,

511
00:45:21,597 --> 00:45:24,537
I just wanted to explore a different aspect of it.

512
00:45:24,797 --> 00:45:29,157
I think like in Man in the High Castle and Plot Against America,

513
00:45:30,277 --> 00:45:35,217
really empathy was not the centerpiece of their books.

514
00:45:35,757 --> 00:45:38,917
Mine became actually the centerpiece.

515
00:45:38,917 --> 00:45:42,837
I did not start with that thought process at all.

516
00:45:43,277 --> 00:45:50,137
It's just, but I just found it not avoidable.

517
00:45:50,757 --> 00:45:52,957
I had to, it was there.

518
00:45:53,197 --> 00:45:56,817
I mean, when you talk about human stories, empathy comes up first.

519
00:45:56,997 --> 00:45:58,017
What happens to people?

520
00:45:58,117 --> 00:45:59,157
How much do you care?

521
00:46:00,237 --> 00:46:08,957
And I don't know if you guys ever read it, but it's kind of, you read it, it's like, huh, I never thought these people would be empathetic and these people won't be.

522
00:46:08,957 --> 00:46:13,037
But, you know, if, again, if a tragedy didn't happen, why not?

523
00:46:13,037 --> 00:46:32,517
And, you know, the point that we talked about, about our frenemies in this book, Japan basically is left alone, right? So they basically own Southeast Asia and they're a superpower. So how does the world deal with them?

524
00:46:32,517 --> 00:46:36,557
So they have to slip a lot of, and all the atrocities already happened.

525
00:46:36,757 --> 00:46:42,237
The Nanking rape, you know, all the Korean Peninsula atrocities happened and everybody's

526
00:46:42,237 --> 00:46:45,037
like, all right, you know, we got to deal with them.

527
00:46:45,177 --> 00:46:47,337
They have a lot of resources we need to deal with.

528
00:46:47,437 --> 00:46:58,310
So you know I bringing that kind of you know sweeping under the rug kind of mentality into play and really examining it Here a little piece of trivia

529
00:46:58,690 --> 00:46:59,710
You probably know this.

530
00:46:59,910 --> 00:47:01,410
I wonder if LX does.

531
00:47:01,410 --> 00:47:14,530
So after 9-11, what country had the largest mass gathering of people in support of America and decrying the act of 9-11?

532
00:47:14,530 --> 00:47:27,550
was it egypt no you're real close though okay we have fairly close it was a it was iran over

533
00:47:27,550 --> 00:47:35,990
1.1 million people came to the streets and most people don't know that i had no idea yeah

534
00:47:35,990 --> 00:47:44,450
also the the largest funeral ceremony ever ever in global history uh just recently took place

535
00:47:44,450 --> 00:47:48,450
which was also in Iran.

536
00:47:48,930 --> 00:47:50,810
Well, and of course surrounding.

537
00:47:52,210 --> 00:47:55,430
So this is actually a really good point you brought up

538
00:47:55,430 --> 00:47:57,970
because that's another thing that the mainstream media

539
00:47:57,970 --> 00:48:02,910
really doesn't talk about is when they talk about,

540
00:48:03,050 --> 00:48:05,770
oh, like, you know, the conflict between this country

541
00:48:05,770 --> 00:48:07,450
and that country and all of that,

542
00:48:07,450 --> 00:48:09,570
it's just, they're just the governments.

543
00:48:10,370 --> 00:48:12,990
People do not hate anybody.

544
00:48:12,990 --> 00:48:16,750
Like, you know, okay, China is an adversary.

545
00:48:17,610 --> 00:48:22,590
Kids, you know, go through so much trouble to come here to go to college.

546
00:48:23,010 --> 00:48:24,190
They don't hate America.

547
00:48:24,910 --> 00:48:26,450
Everybody wants to come here.

548
00:48:27,190 --> 00:48:31,170
I mean, we know that, to live here, to go to school here, all of that,

549
00:48:31,310 --> 00:48:34,230
from all these countries that are like enemy.

550
00:48:34,710 --> 00:48:38,210
So it's just like these poor people are put in between

551
00:48:38,210 --> 00:48:40,570
because the governments have some beef.

552
00:48:40,570 --> 00:48:49,550
venezuelans i mean they so much of them are in um immigrated to florida they love america every

553
00:48:49,550 --> 00:48:56,290
ethnic group right they all came here for a reason and it's like so it's not so but who do you uh

554
00:48:56,290 --> 00:49:02,410
punish with economic sanction the people because the government gets around it who do you you don't

555
00:49:02,410 --> 00:49:07,890
let to come here people government officials still come here to you know do whatever they want to do

556
00:49:07,890 --> 00:49:10,390
It's just you keep punishing the poor people.

557
00:49:11,370 --> 00:49:13,170
And again, nobody covers that.

558
00:49:13,270 --> 00:49:14,770
It's just brown.

559
00:49:15,310 --> 00:49:16,810
It's just, it doesn't affect me.

560
00:49:17,490 --> 00:49:19,730
So this is, again, going back to empathy.

561
00:49:20,310 --> 00:49:21,850
And everybody knows that.

562
00:49:21,930 --> 00:49:23,470
But it's just like, okay, it just feels good.

563
00:49:23,550 --> 00:49:28,890
It's like, let's not let the Iranian soccer team stay an extra night

564
00:49:28,890 --> 00:49:35,130
and go back to Tijuana and then lose to, I forgot who they lost the last game.

565
00:49:35,130 --> 00:49:43,110
anyway, they were actually pretty close. I mean, all of that is like, why? Why are you punishing

566
00:49:43,110 --> 00:49:52,710
the soccer team? I mean, to just humiliate the government and these poor kids. I mean, again,

567
00:49:52,710 --> 00:49:57,430
living here, maybe you guys don't, I think it's the equivalent of playing in the Super Bowl,

568
00:49:57,530 --> 00:50:04,890
right? Every kid is born, a boy is like, I'm going to play in the World Cup, right? And you're just

569
00:50:04,890 --> 00:50:10,070
crushing them and every family member you just crush all of that so who are you punishing

570
00:50:10,070 --> 00:50:18,330
and then people start to really actually hate the U.S. government right now who is hurting

571
00:50:18,330 --> 00:50:29,050
in Iran just not getting any imports who is hurting the government fat fat cats they're still

572
00:50:29,050 --> 00:50:36,770
living large people just i mean you saw that and so when the revolution happened in 1979

573
00:50:36,770 --> 00:50:45,550
every dollar was 70 reals right now is 2.4 million reals wow

574
00:50:45,550 --> 00:50:55,850
and it's gone up uh i think three or four x in the past two years alone so who is suffering

575
00:50:56,590 --> 00:50:57,690
Nobody covers it.

576
00:50:57,770 --> 00:51:04,730
When was the last time you saw it on CNN, Fox News, whatever, NPR, whatever outlet you listen to?

577
00:51:05,070 --> 00:51:05,650
No one.

578
00:51:06,450 --> 00:51:09,210
Maybe, you know, 10 seconds, move on.

579
00:51:09,210 --> 00:51:14,950
Oh, the global oil market is in turmoil because I'm like, okay, that's all you care about.

580
00:51:15,430 --> 00:51:17,810
But 90 million people are suffering.

581
00:51:18,090 --> 00:51:18,890
Nobody cares.

582
00:51:19,330 --> 00:51:21,550
Where are they getting their insulin?

583
00:51:21,550 --> 00:51:28,790
Where are they getting their hospital supply?

584
00:51:29,390 --> 00:51:30,750
Nobody talks about it.

585
00:51:30,870 --> 00:51:32,470
Nobody's on the ground covering that.

586
00:51:32,610 --> 00:51:33,190
It's like, eh.

587
00:51:33,750 --> 00:51:35,150
It's just nobody's interested in it.

588
00:51:35,230 --> 00:51:37,750
Where is that 30-second soundbite I want?

589
00:51:39,470 --> 00:51:43,150
So that's the part that I'm just so disappointed.

590
00:51:43,750 --> 00:51:49,510
I have written to all of these media companies, you know, from CNN, Los Angeles.

591
00:51:49,610 --> 00:51:50,430
I mean, you name it.

592
00:51:50,430 --> 00:51:54,350
And I'm like, but they don't care because they want clicks, right?

593
00:51:54,510 --> 00:51:55,730
It's just they're a business.

594
00:51:55,990 --> 00:51:56,690
They're not.

595
00:51:58,190 --> 00:52:13,103
So yeah it just very frustrating A lot of that comes down to advertisers right They will money funding and stop stop giving you money for ads If you go and talk about the counter side of things a lot

596
00:52:13,103 --> 00:52:19,183
of the time, you know, so, and it is sad. And I do think we need more empathy, especially for

597
00:52:19,183 --> 00:52:26,143
other human beings. I don't care what, you know, color, how tall, how round, how wide, how,

598
00:52:26,143 --> 00:52:32,523
whatever you are if you're a human being you are deserving of my empathy that's that's well you

599
00:52:32,523 --> 00:52:39,123
know and the bar is so low the bar is not like oh i want a place to live no it's just don't kill me

600
00:52:39,123 --> 00:52:45,943
yeah i mean the bar i mean this is i don't even know if it's empathy this is just like so basic

601
00:52:45,943 --> 00:52:53,563
that people are like yeah no my grandparents had a word for that it was called common decency

602
00:52:53,563 --> 00:52:59,983
common decency yeah it's that's it's just so much to me empathy is like okay i want to bring

603
00:52:59,983 --> 00:53:07,803
your standard of living up right to but to me this is like just don't kill me let me have my

604
00:53:07,803 --> 00:53:13,963
tylenol right this is not that's why it's i have a hard time calling it empathy because it's just

605
00:53:13,963 --> 00:53:24,223
the bar is so low yeah getting hungry alex what yeah

606
00:53:24,223 --> 00:53:33,463
the pizza i think pizza is the common ground i missed i missed i so i don't eat i don't eat

607
00:53:33,463 --> 00:53:39,943
bread i haven't eaten bread in a while but i miss i miss pizza i i go you know i'm i'm i'm

608
00:53:39,943 --> 00:53:47,343
in the same boat. I have pizza once a month and, uh, it's a glorious day.

609
00:53:51,423 --> 00:53:56,283
Yeah. Well, it's once a year for LX. He comes to, comes to my house for that event.

610
00:53:56,763 --> 00:54:01,743
And, uh, we kind of, you know, we don't throw the rules out, but we cheat a little bit.

611
00:54:02,223 --> 00:54:04,023
Kind of throw the rules out a little bit.

612
00:54:04,023 --> 00:54:09,163
No, not entirely. Like we're going to make that, uh, we're going to make that cauliflower

613
00:54:09,163 --> 00:54:18,543
au gratin this year. Okay. So no rule throwing out on that one. Yeah. So yeah. Interesting.

614
00:54:18,863 --> 00:54:25,343
So what was your favorite, what was your favorite part of the book to write? And what was the most

615
00:54:25,343 --> 00:54:32,023
challenging part for you? Um, for Twilight of Democracy or Secrets and Murders?

616
00:54:32,023 --> 00:54:39,343
well we let's talk a twilight of uh of democracy for right now i didn't really dig into the other

617
00:54:39,343 --> 00:54:48,263
one but yeah sure yeah yeah yeah um so for twilight oh um so i struggle with this a lot

618
00:54:48,263 --> 00:55:00,243
so i start with the hardest um so it happens in 1950 and uh i i just thought

619
00:55:00,243 --> 00:55:05,223
But so it's a little bit of a story of the second chance too, right?

620
00:55:05,283 --> 00:55:08,743
Because again, this World War II didn't happen.

621
00:55:10,383 --> 00:55:16,923
You know, tens of millions of people had second chance to live a better life, the whole continent, the whole world.

622
00:55:17,623 --> 00:55:25,083
So I thought, okay, one person that gets a second chance is Anne Frank.

623
00:55:25,083 --> 00:55:36,243
should I include her in this story or not and I had sleepless nights I was like and my worry was

624
00:55:36,243 --> 00:55:42,003
like okay just I don't want to be presumptuous I just don't want to be portrayed that oh you're

625
00:55:42,003 --> 00:55:48,583
just throwing like some big name in there and to just you know you know you know the whole thing

626
00:55:48,583 --> 00:55:57,643
So I asked my Gen Z son, who has read her diary and, you know, knows very well about her and all of that.

627
00:55:57,763 --> 00:56:00,023
So I said, you know, I'm here.

628
00:56:00,183 --> 00:56:03,203
I need to, I'm about to introduce her character.

629
00:56:03,543 --> 00:56:04,483
So what do you think?

630
00:56:04,523 --> 00:56:07,303
And he's like, do it, you know.

631
00:56:07,423 --> 00:56:11,683
And he was like maybe 12 or 13 back then.

632
00:56:12,823 --> 00:56:16,963
So I'm like, I guess I'll do it.

633
00:56:16,963 --> 00:56:23,443
So, and I really, you know, didn't just mention her.

634
00:56:23,603 --> 00:56:30,123
I just, you know, because from her writing, it's just like she was so brilliant at such a young age.

635
00:56:30,723 --> 00:56:41,263
I'm like, I imagined her to be like an exceptional person at the age of 21 or 2 would have been, 23 in 1950.

636
00:56:42,443 --> 00:56:44,923
And so I really struggled with that.

637
00:56:44,923 --> 00:56:49,763
And that was really the hardest part to make a decision.

638
00:56:51,663 --> 00:57:04,103
The other, I guess, two parts that I struggled with, one was just reimagining the world that is believable.

639
00:57:05,083 --> 00:57:11,803
I didn't want it to be, I want to, actually the first version, the first edition I wrote, I wrote it like a history book.

640
00:57:12,883 --> 00:57:25,637
And it read like a history book it didn have a lot of you know show don tell because I just viewed it as a like a historical document to be just more believable

641
00:57:26,477 --> 00:57:34,197
Second edition, I just made it a lot more, you know, show, don't tell and more, you know, from POV.

642
00:57:34,197 --> 00:57:42,977
um so so that's that's so the making it believable and not just you know thrown together was like the

643
00:57:42,977 --> 00:57:47,737
hardest thing so like and I have all these notes that okay what happens to India what happens to

644
00:57:47,737 --> 00:57:56,737
Soviet Union what happens to Stalin Africa Middle East I just went like basically country by country

645
00:57:56,737 --> 00:58:03,817
what happens to Japan what happens to Asia what happens to China you know Mao is not going to be

646
00:58:03,817 --> 00:58:12,757
power because the Japanese are in charge. And so that part was really, really hard. I think I spent

647
00:58:12,757 --> 00:58:18,137
over a month to really, and as I wrote it, I made the world a little bit more believable.

648
00:58:18,497 --> 00:58:23,997
So that was another really, really hard part for me to do. And the other part is like, of course,

649
00:58:24,217 --> 00:58:30,177
what happens to America? And I just didn't want it to be so cliche. I just, not to bash on

650
00:58:30,177 --> 00:58:35,997
um, plot against America, but the plot against America was, took a little bit of a simplistic way

651
00:58:35,997 --> 00:58:43,577
of, um, you know, going about, uh, World War II not happening. Um, I just want it to be a lot more,

652
00:58:43,577 --> 00:58:51,177
again, believable. It's kind of like how superhero, uh, movies and comic books were like,

653
00:58:51,177 --> 00:58:55,557
you know, superheroes were just like invincible. And now the modern ones, they all have problem

654
00:58:55,557 --> 00:58:57,937
and they have family and it's a lot more believable.

655
00:58:58,217 --> 00:59:00,537
So I just wanted to take that kind of approach

656
00:59:00,537 --> 00:59:02,517
that is a lot more believable and relatable.

657
00:59:03,377 --> 00:59:06,097
And of course, it impacted the protagonist

658
00:59:06,097 --> 00:59:09,837
and his struggles and all of that.

659
00:59:09,937 --> 00:59:10,737
So I think that was,

660
00:59:10,997 --> 00:59:13,977
and that's why it took me over a year to write it.

661
00:59:15,557 --> 00:59:17,597
And what was, oh, go ahead, Alex.

662
00:59:17,797 --> 00:59:19,577
Oh, I was just going to ask, in the books,

663
00:59:19,617 --> 00:59:22,317
how did you address the application of technology

664
00:59:22,317 --> 00:59:24,077
that came about from World War II,

665
00:59:24,077 --> 00:59:29,117
being that if we hadn't been at it, were we advanced or delayed?

666
00:59:29,557 --> 00:59:31,557
Or how did you do that?

667
00:59:31,677 --> 00:59:33,117
Yeah, so I totally addressed it.

668
00:59:33,637 --> 00:59:37,877
So one of the things is the biggest impact, I don't give the rest of it away,

669
00:59:38,037 --> 00:59:41,337
but on the Soviet side, because war didn't happen.

670
00:59:41,637 --> 00:59:45,117
So they didn't steal a lot of the Nazi scientists.

671
00:59:45,677 --> 00:59:49,277
So Soviet Union never became Soviet Union that we know today.

672
00:59:50,857 --> 00:59:53,837
But, you know, not for other countries.

673
00:59:54,077 --> 00:59:55,997
Especially a lot of them stayed in Germany.

674
00:59:56,457 --> 00:59:58,297
So what would happen to Europe?

675
00:59:58,637 --> 00:59:59,977
What would happen to America?

676
01:00:00,337 --> 01:00:01,977
Who has more money?

677
01:00:02,457 --> 01:00:07,917
So I thought it through big time.

678
01:00:08,697 --> 01:00:09,657
I figured you did.

679
01:00:09,657 --> 01:00:10,217
Yeah.

680
01:00:10,477 --> 01:00:19,497
And the other part is actually, which is funny, in it, America kind of annexes Greenland.

681
01:00:20,357 --> 01:00:22,257
Again, I wrote it in 2020.

682
01:00:24,077 --> 01:00:26,797
I wrote it way before.

683
01:00:26,797 --> 01:00:28,397
Are you working with the Simpsons on there?

684
01:00:29,917 --> 01:00:33,677
Is it like life imitating art or what?

685
01:00:33,677 --> 01:00:34,077
Totally.

686
01:00:35,437 --> 01:00:48,557
So, and well, so I tell you like how actually I arrived at Greenland because I thought, oh, it would be cool if actually U.S. invades part of Siberia because, oh, Alaska is already part of America.

687
01:00:48,557 --> 01:00:49,877
So kind of like keep going.

688
01:00:49,877 --> 01:00:56,177
But I kept staring at the map and I'm like, it would be very hard to just like put a wall there.

689
01:00:56,277 --> 01:01:00,937
Like how much of Siberia, maybe just southern part of Siberia.

690
01:01:01,157 --> 01:01:05,077
I'm like, I just going to take Greenland.

691
01:01:05,237 --> 01:01:09,617
And I want a conflict between Europe and U.S. anyway.

692
01:01:09,957 --> 01:01:17,117
So I have actually Greenland and Faroe Islands basically annexed by the U.S.

693
01:01:17,117 --> 01:01:27,857
So I did it not being lazy, but just like visually, it was so much easier to annex than part of Siberia or any other part of the world.

694
01:01:28,017 --> 01:01:30,077
So that's basically I went that route.

695
01:01:31,097 --> 01:01:43,497
Something about history states that fighting the Russians in the winter part of life and from Siberia is you're going to have a very bad time.

696
01:01:43,557 --> 01:01:44,037
Yes.

697
01:01:44,197 --> 01:01:44,897
Very bad.

698
01:01:44,897 --> 01:01:45,417
Yes.

699
01:01:45,417 --> 01:02:10,397
Yes. So actually, so if you ever read the book, that's why actually I weakened Soviet Union so much and Stalin is basically bedridden. So I was actually setting up the book to be, and then, so that's why most of it, yeah, I weakened Soviet Union because, oh, they didn't get the Nazi scientists, but I was weakening it so it's easier.

700
01:02:10,397 --> 01:02:14,997
So we don't run into the Napoleon and World War Two problem with with Russia.

701
01:02:14,997 --> 01:02:19,597
Definitely, I was going that route, but I was like, oh, it's just like, it's so big.

702
01:02:19,597 --> 01:02:22,797
Like you cannot build a wall and you cannot keep him out.

703
01:02:22,797 --> 01:02:29,977
So I was thinking, oh, maybe they have these Nazi science and Nazi technology.

704
01:02:29,982 --> 01:02:33,942
that puts some Star Wars-style barrier.

705
01:02:34,322 --> 01:02:36,462
And I was like, that's just not unbelievable.

706
01:02:36,642 --> 01:02:38,902
I'm like, oh, Greenland.

707
01:02:40,042 --> 01:02:42,262
Okay, so here's the next question.

708
01:02:43,382 --> 01:02:47,322
Maybe it's too much of a giveaway, but did we still build the bomb?

709
01:02:51,202 --> 01:02:54,702
As a human race, not necessarily us.

710
01:02:54,702 --> 01:02:58,702
We built a bomb, but not the first bomb.

711
01:02:59,982 --> 01:03:08,142
So basically a lot of things in my book don't happen and a lot of things skip a generation.

712
01:03:08,982 --> 01:03:10,822
Because I thought, again, it would be...

713
01:03:10,822 --> 01:03:12,022
And that would make sense, right?

714
01:03:12,162 --> 01:03:12,382
Yeah.

715
01:03:13,302 --> 01:03:15,182
And actually that...

716
01:03:15,182 --> 01:03:16,582
And it's not a bomb.

717
01:03:16,662 --> 01:03:17,522
Let's call it a weapon.

718
01:03:17,862 --> 01:03:22,422
And actually that's the centerpiece of the story.

719
01:03:23,702 --> 01:03:24,562
Oh, okay.

720
01:03:24,802 --> 01:03:25,182
Yeah, yeah.

721
01:03:25,182 --> 01:03:25,282
All right.

722
01:03:25,362 --> 01:03:26,822
Well, I'm going to have to grab this book.

723
01:03:26,822 --> 01:03:27,762
Yeah, it's a weapon.

724
01:03:27,762 --> 01:03:29,222
Let's put it that way.

725
01:03:29,982 --> 01:03:38,602
all right well that that's pretty cool that's pretty cool and yeah i mean you know interestingly

726
01:03:38,602 --> 01:03:45,022
enough you know i mean we also benefited from that right i mean a large absolutely amount of

727
01:03:45,022 --> 01:03:52,842
of nasa came from you know what was it operation paperclip correct we we you know forklifted these

728
01:03:52,842 --> 01:03:59,482
scientists and said well you work for us now so uh yeah that's that's pretty cool

729
01:03:59,482 --> 01:04:06,142
that's really cool that's see i don't know how i would get i mean that just seems like so much to

730
01:04:06,142 --> 01:04:13,882
go through inside of a year even yes you know it sounds like a multi-year body of work to try and

731
01:04:13,882 --> 01:04:22,182
come up with all of that yeah for me i mean i yeah i i kept all my notes you know but once the world

732
01:04:22,182 --> 01:04:31,022
was in my head. I mean, I was up writing until two, three in the morning. Actually, I was not

733
01:04:31,022 --> 01:04:35,662
reading, I was not writing in bed. Of course, I moved like downstairs and I was just like, you

734
01:04:35,662 --> 01:04:41,962
know, typing away. So, and that's why it was, it became very much like a historical piece because

735
01:04:41,962 --> 01:04:48,242
in my head, I, because I read so much nonfiction and the history books. So in my head, it was just

736
01:04:48,242 --> 01:04:53,202
like it translated into that. Yeah, it was a lot of work. But at the same time, I took like, you

737
01:04:53,202 --> 01:04:59,402
know, a couple hour long walks and, you know, brainstorming and doing a lot of voice notes and

738
01:04:59,402 --> 01:05:05,342
all of that. Once my brain goes, I go really fast. I mean, even like my day job is the same.

739
01:05:05,962 --> 01:05:14,402
Once my brain is working, I just like produce very fast. So yeah, and I'm getting better at it.

740
01:05:14,402 --> 01:05:18,182
Like for my upcoming book, I just got so much more efficient.

741
01:05:18,562 --> 01:05:20,922
And I'm writing actually my fourth book right now.

742
01:05:20,982 --> 01:05:23,542
And I'm like so much better, right?

743
01:05:23,582 --> 01:05:27,602
It's just like one, two, three, four, just like you keep getting better at your process.

744
01:05:27,922 --> 01:05:29,002
So definitely, yeah.

745
01:05:29,042 --> 01:05:31,702
So it was a lot of work, a lot of creativity.

746
01:05:32,282 --> 01:05:32,422
Yeah.

747
01:05:33,882 --> 01:05:38,362
How often did you have to go back and correct things because you changed something?

748
01:05:38,702 --> 01:05:41,622
Like, oh, I need to do this here in Japan.

749
01:05:41,622 --> 01:05:44,442
And then, oh, crud, that changes China and Russia.

750
01:05:45,042 --> 01:05:46,322
And, oh, man.

751
01:05:46,562 --> 01:05:47,062
No, no.

752
01:05:47,122 --> 01:05:54,642
So that was actually not a whole lot, actually, because the world was already made up in my mind or sketched out.

753
01:05:55,282 --> 01:06:01,042
So actually, it was funny, like, because I had to, like, explain in some passage what happens to certain countries.

754
01:06:01,122 --> 01:06:03,822
I'm like, oh, that's what I decided on Italy.

755
01:06:04,182 --> 01:06:06,942
Let's say Italy and Spain are, like, misnomer.

756
01:06:07,222 --> 01:06:09,642
So I started writing it, and I just wrote it.

757
01:06:09,642 --> 01:06:36,762
So that part was not actually very difficult. Editing, going back, you're like, yeah, it just doesn't make sense. So that part to just make it smooth and not be too informative and professorial was like the hardest part to make it into an actual story that is like you can turn the page, not just like, okay, what happened to Japan?

758
01:06:36,762 --> 01:06:43,722
uh okay what happened to china that was my biggest struggle not actually putting my plan in place

759
01:06:43,722 --> 01:06:50,962
because my plan was like very well thought out um like i have a lot of notes that you know exactly

760
01:06:50,962 --> 01:06:55,302
what happens to certain countries and why it happened and what caused it and all of that

761
01:06:55,302 --> 01:07:03,682
i had to come up with like categories of countries um so so that part yeah i i got it right but just

762
01:07:03,682 --> 01:07:08,682
like making it make sense was like the hardest part.

763
01:07:08,682 --> 01:07:11,182
Yeah, that seems like it would be very difficult.

764
01:07:11,182 --> 01:07:33,634
I tried to write a book once about 35 years ago and I gotten three pages done Well you know so my first book took 16 years I started writing it when my son was born and I just could not come up with like chase scene and you know a page turner and I just

765
01:07:33,634 --> 01:07:40,194
let it sit and and you know you're up when you know your kid is up and all of that all the good

766
01:07:40,194 --> 01:07:45,774
stuff. So that was, I started like very creative, come up with a core story, but just finishing it.

767
01:07:45,834 --> 01:07:49,634
Yeah. That's why it took me so long. But once I finished them, I'm like, okay, I can do it again.

768
01:07:50,234 --> 01:07:56,534
And it was over a year, um, Twilight of Democracy. It was, it was a year and maybe three months.

769
01:07:57,354 --> 01:08:03,114
Um, and then this, uh, the third one took me like, like close to a year,

770
01:08:03,114 --> 01:08:05,834
like less than a year because I just got so much more efficient.

771
01:08:05,834 --> 01:08:13,074
awesome and so you've got another fourth one coming fourth one i'm reading i'm writing it

772
01:08:13,074 --> 01:08:20,374
right i'm on the fourth chapter but my third one and murders and secrets the idea is um this is

773
01:08:20,374 --> 01:08:27,054
again because i moved to the deep suburbs from city living all my life and uh you know i just

774
01:08:27,054 --> 01:08:33,654
observed how hoa living is which i not know concept of you know it's the board and you cannot

775
01:08:33,654 --> 01:08:38,474
know, do certain things. And, you know, and again, I like HOA living because living in the middle of

776
01:08:38,474 --> 01:08:43,054
the city, you know, you live between a blue house and a pink house and nobody takes care of anything.

777
01:08:43,054 --> 01:08:47,654
And now everything is like manicured. And I'm like, oh, okay, that doesn't look that bad. So

778
01:08:47,654 --> 01:08:53,694
it's not like I hate living in HOAs, but I just felt the community, I think it was back a little

779
01:08:53,694 --> 01:08:59,154
bit about your empathy conversation. And, you know, cul-de-sac people feel a little bit, you know,

780
01:08:59,154 --> 01:09:04,354
you know different the gated community people feel different they have their own they don't

781
01:09:04,354 --> 01:09:10,234
want to mix with others so there was a little bit of like that you know funny feel that i'm like huh

782
01:09:10,234 --> 01:09:15,214
so i put that in the back of my head and then we don't care if you were in the hospital for a week

783
01:09:15,214 --> 01:09:19,614
with a heart attack you better have that lawn mowed exactly you're getting more letters two

784
01:09:19,614 --> 01:09:28,434
and a half inches you're getting a fine no no empathy for you the last hoa i lived in and that

785
01:09:28,434 --> 01:09:34,334
will be the last one I ever live in. Uh, I, you know, we moved in and it was, you know, it was

786
01:09:34,334 --> 01:09:41,134
new, um, and, uh, new construction. So moved in and, you know, there's the flower beds, it's a

787
01:09:41,134 --> 01:09:45,694
little, little front patio. So it wasn't, you know, anything special or anything. It was a nice little

788
01:09:45,694 --> 01:09:53,774
place. And to put flowers in the flower beds, I had to go to all of my neighbors in my little area,

789
01:09:53,774 --> 01:10:02,914
like 12 people and i had to show them a plan what flowers what plants what colors they were going to

790
01:10:02,914 --> 01:10:10,114
be and i had to get them to sign all of them and then only after that could i then submit it to the

791
01:10:10,114 --> 01:10:17,574
board yeah to have them approve if those actually match the color schemes and are acceptable flowers

792
01:10:17,574 --> 01:10:20,934
And that's when I went, nope, never know this again.

793
01:10:21,134 --> 01:10:21,894
Not a chance.

794
01:10:22,694 --> 01:10:22,894
Yeah.

795
01:10:23,194 --> 01:10:24,634
So all that good stuff.

796
01:10:24,814 --> 01:10:26,874
So you see how it kind of like scarred me.

797
01:10:27,094 --> 01:10:33,114
Well, I mean, as soon as we bought the house, I got a notice that it's like, oh, there's a stain in the front of the house.

798
01:10:33,174 --> 01:10:36,154
And I'm like, I'm not moving in for another three months.

799
01:10:36,214 --> 01:10:38,314
I'm in like a different part of the state.

800
01:10:38,954 --> 01:10:40,634
So, yeah, speaking of empathy.

801
01:10:41,394 --> 01:10:43,934
So anyway, so I felt, you know, all of this.

802
01:10:43,934 --> 01:10:55,274
And then I don't know if you guys ever followed the whole school voucher system that has been going on since the 90s that, oh, here's the voucher, you know, take the money and then take your kid to any school you want.

803
01:10:55,354 --> 01:10:56,734
And then who's left behind?

804
01:10:56,834 --> 01:11:03,534
Again, empathy, you know, money is taken away from inner city schools, you know, who suffers, all the people, you know.

805
01:11:03,854 --> 01:11:13,474
And then, you know, the whole conversation of our walls, you know, dividing people, you know, makes the society better, safer, all of that.

806
01:11:13,474 --> 01:11:17,114
I'm like, okay, so I have all of these elements.

807
01:11:18,454 --> 01:11:23,474
Let's take all of that and, you know, put them to work.

808
01:11:23,814 --> 01:11:24,974
Take them a couple steps further.

809
01:11:25,114 --> 01:11:30,934
It's like, what if there were HOAs and walls everywhere, not just parts of the country?

810
01:11:31,114 --> 01:11:37,454
And only people who cannot afford it, who are not in a protected wall are people who are just poor.

811
01:11:38,214 --> 01:11:40,534
So basically, we put all the poor people in one area.

812
01:11:40,534 --> 01:11:47,594
We don't call them inner city or whatever pejorative term, but that's where they end up.

813
01:11:47,974 --> 01:12:00,514
And then everybody else who has a job, basically, you can live in some sort of a gated community based on your IQ, based on your religion, based on your status in life, whatever.

814
01:12:01,254 --> 01:12:04,434
I explored some of it, but I didn't name them all.

815
01:12:04,994 --> 01:12:14,945
And I like will it be a better society I mean you like the concept of it Everybody kind of wants that kind of separation

816
01:12:15,445 --> 01:12:17,545
But would it be a better society?

817
01:12:17,665 --> 01:12:21,065
Very much like Twilight of Democracy, would it be a better world?

818
01:12:21,705 --> 01:12:29,945
And not just tweak one thing, but no, the whole society is built based on this separation.

819
01:12:31,845 --> 01:12:35,105
And so I'm like, okay, I have the concept.

820
01:12:35,105 --> 01:12:37,865
I'm like, okay, so how do I examine this?

821
01:12:38,105 --> 01:12:40,945
Because again, I didn't want it to be just some social experiment.

822
01:12:41,365 --> 01:12:42,565
And I'm like, okay, a murder.

823
01:12:42,805 --> 01:12:45,385
Because a murder, the truth needs to come out.

824
01:12:46,325 --> 01:12:50,465
The ugly underbelly, all the relationships, everything comes out.

825
01:12:50,485 --> 01:12:52,605
So it became a murder mystery that way.

826
01:12:52,745 --> 01:12:54,645
Not that I chose to write a murder mystery.

827
01:12:55,225 --> 01:12:58,285
It's just like I thought that's the best way to tell a story.

828
01:12:58,285 --> 01:13:01,645
And again, not as complex as Twilight of Democracy,

829
01:13:01,645 --> 01:13:07,625
but I had to construct this world, put rules in, timeline in, and all of that.

830
01:13:08,025 --> 01:13:11,665
So that part of it was not as difficult.

831
01:13:11,845 --> 01:13:16,705
The difficult part was doing the murder mystery because it's just so hard.

832
01:13:17,005 --> 01:13:19,805
I think it was the hardest book I wrote because of the murder mystery.

833
01:13:20,845 --> 01:13:23,365
In Twilight, I knew the history.

834
01:13:23,585 --> 01:13:24,885
I loved the history part.

835
01:13:25,005 --> 01:13:26,625
So even though it was a lot of work,

836
01:13:26,665 --> 01:13:29,145
it came to me a little bit easier because of my background.

837
01:13:29,145 --> 01:13:32,045
But this one was like, I've never written a murder mystery.

838
01:13:32,245 --> 01:13:36,265
So that to just making it a page turner made it very, very hard.

839
01:13:37,385 --> 01:13:37,905
Yeah.

840
01:13:37,905 --> 01:13:46,985
And that's something you can actually view, not entirely, but for the most part, not as much in San Diego, I think, because there is actually a definitive city.

841
01:13:47,525 --> 01:13:55,225
And the suburbs are not quite as dense, I think, because San Diego County is a lot bigger.

842
01:13:55,725 --> 01:13:57,005
San Diego City is a lot bigger.

843
01:13:57,005 --> 01:14:00,805
But if you go up to Orange County, that's exactly what you've got.

844
01:14:00,925 --> 01:14:07,665
I mean, in my last HOA, you literally had like this city was a community and like you had.

845
01:14:08,165 --> 01:14:09,785
I think Irvine is like that.

846
01:14:10,285 --> 01:14:10,605
Yes.

847
01:14:10,745 --> 01:14:11,025
Yes.

848
01:14:11,165 --> 01:14:16,585
And you've got like, you've got the, you know, condo people that live, you know, in this area.

849
01:14:16,585 --> 01:14:16,905
That's right.

850
01:14:17,165 --> 01:14:20,225
And then you've got the starter home people over here.

851
01:14:20,225 --> 01:14:25,325
And then over here, you've got the nicer, but still kind of median homes, you know.

852
01:14:25,325 --> 01:14:41,265
And then you've got the gated community. It's inside the community, but it's gated off from the rest of the community. And that's where the nice homes are. And it was like, you were talking about this. I'm like, wow, that actually exists right now.

853
01:14:41,265 --> 01:15:05,285
Yeah. So again, I took that. I think I had Orange County in mind. That's exactly. Because Bay Area is not like that at all. But Orange County is definitely the mecca of HOAs and gated communities. Yeah. And a lot of affluent, right? It has all the elements of my book. And actually, in my book, I don't say where it is, but you can guess where it is.

854
01:15:06,225 --> 01:15:09,145
Well, I saw it in my head. I'm like, I lived there.

855
01:15:09,605 --> 01:15:10,005
Exactly.

856
01:15:11,265 --> 01:15:12,045
That's right.

857
01:15:12,045 --> 01:15:17,245
And you come out of that community and you go by and there's the other community there and the next one.

858
01:15:17,245 --> 01:15:20,225
I even made it a little bit crazier.

859
01:15:20,405 --> 01:15:24,485
I said, even if you live in a gated community, I call them premium communities.

860
01:15:25,345 --> 01:15:29,025
Because most actually HOAs in my world have gates.

861
01:15:29,145 --> 01:15:31,085
So gate is not a big deal anymore.

862
01:15:32,005 --> 01:15:33,265
So I call it premium communities.

863
01:15:33,425 --> 01:15:34,605
They have their own roads.

864
01:15:35,925 --> 01:15:36,885
Premium roads.

865
01:15:36,885 --> 01:15:38,525
so it's just like

866
01:15:38,525 --> 01:15:40,665
take it because we have

867
01:15:40,665 --> 01:15:42,725
toll roads in Orange County

868
01:15:42,725 --> 01:15:44,605
right so I'm like okay how about there is another

869
01:15:44,605 --> 01:15:46,745
road it's just for premium community people

870
01:15:46,745 --> 01:15:48,165
just like let's see how

871
01:15:48,165 --> 01:15:49,905
you know it pans out

872
01:15:49,905 --> 01:15:53,445
that is awesome

873
01:15:53,445 --> 01:15:54,585
I like it

874
01:15:54,585 --> 01:15:55,445
I do

875
01:15:55,445 --> 01:15:58,705
well I think this is probably a really

876
01:15:58,705 --> 01:16:00,685
great place to wrap up and I

877
01:16:00,685 --> 01:16:02,685
really appreciate your time this has been

878
01:16:02,685 --> 01:16:04,665
great I think personally

879
01:16:04,665 --> 01:16:06,665
I'd love to have you back on at some point

880
01:16:06,665 --> 01:16:11,065
Maybe when the next book comes out, we'll have you on and talk about that.

881
01:16:12,325 --> 01:16:17,625
One thing we like to do for all of our guests is give them an opportunity to give back, right?

882
01:16:18,185 --> 01:16:20,985
And what we frame that as is a question.

883
01:16:21,445 --> 01:16:27,105
And the question is, throughout our lives, there's a figure that has a massive and lasting impact on our lives.

884
01:16:27,605 --> 01:16:32,085
This could be a sixth grade science teacher, a historical figure, an author.

885
01:16:32,305 --> 01:16:33,005
It could be mom.

886
01:16:33,005 --> 01:16:37,125
and we like to give our guests the opportunity to shout out that person and kind of give back

887
01:16:37,125 --> 01:16:48,645
yeah it's such a good question um um funny enough actually my son just went off to college

888
01:16:48,645 --> 01:17:06,017
so i gave him this kind of advice um that um my college roommate one of my college roommates um was a really smart brilliant guy And he spoke multiple languages He was a fantastic student

889
01:17:08,037 --> 01:17:09,237
He was fun.

890
01:17:09,457 --> 01:17:12,697
He was not fun in like a party way, but he was,

891
01:17:13,257 --> 01:17:17,397
I guess I really enjoyed his intellect.

892
01:17:18,597 --> 01:17:22,357
So he really influenced me in a very positive way.

893
01:17:22,397 --> 01:17:25,577
I don't think I would be sitting here if it was not because of him.

894
01:17:25,677 --> 01:17:34,937
Um, he made me a good student. He made me care about studying and, um, university. Um, and, uh,

895
01:17:35,777 --> 01:17:43,957
um, so I really, uh, I think, I think I give him a lot of credit for a person who I am. So I told

896
01:17:43,957 --> 01:17:48,837
my son is like, yeah, you never know who you are going to meet. And I gave him also, uh, Thomas

897
01:17:48,837 --> 01:17:53,797
Jefferson's examples. I forgot exactly, um, the person, I don't think he was his roommate, but

898
01:17:53,797 --> 01:18:00,197
is a person who introduced him to Newton and French Enlightenment

899
01:18:00,197 --> 01:18:04,977
and William and Mary when he was attending there.

900
01:18:05,217 --> 01:18:07,917
And I'm like, ah, very similar to my experience.

901
01:18:08,117 --> 01:18:12,217
So I gave him that advice that is like you never know who you're going to meet.

902
01:18:12,357 --> 01:18:17,757
You just need to find the smartest, you know, or have other qualities.

903
01:18:18,117 --> 01:18:20,477
Just like learn from them and grow.

904
01:18:20,477 --> 01:18:25,417
So, yeah, I think I give him a lot of credit for my growth.

905
01:18:26,577 --> 01:18:28,717
Can you give us his name or probably not?

906
01:18:28,737 --> 01:18:29,297
Yeah, Thomas.

907
01:18:29,477 --> 01:18:30,817
His name was Thomas.

908
01:18:31,177 --> 01:18:32,317
And he was Swiss.

909
01:18:33,497 --> 01:18:33,897
Awesome.

910
01:18:34,017 --> 01:18:34,577
Oh, he is Swiss.

911
01:18:34,717 --> 01:18:35,517
I mean, he's still around.

912
01:18:35,617 --> 01:18:37,637
He doesn't live in the U.S. anymore, but yeah.

913
01:18:38,757 --> 01:18:41,577
Well, we've got a large international following apparently.

914
01:18:41,957 --> 01:18:42,737
So, I don't know.

915
01:18:42,837 --> 01:18:43,657
He might hear this.

916
01:18:44,537 --> 01:18:47,977
Well, thank you again for giving us some of your time.

917
01:18:48,197 --> 01:18:49,637
I really do appreciate it.

918
01:18:49,637 --> 01:18:51,337
It's one of our most precious commodities.

919
01:18:52,177 --> 01:18:53,437
You said you got a book.

920
01:18:53,537 --> 01:18:54,737
Where can people find you?

921
01:18:55,157 --> 01:18:57,417
What else are you working on?

922
01:18:57,417 --> 01:19:00,857
And what do you got next after the next book?

923
01:19:00,857 --> 01:19:01,317
Oh, thanks.

924
01:19:02,557 --> 01:19:09,617
Yeah, so everything about me and my work is, you don't see the website.

925
01:19:09,817 --> 01:19:10,797
It's cut off a little bit.

926
01:19:11,097 --> 01:19:14,297
It's hermanforward.com.

927
01:19:14,297 --> 01:19:21,757
and so it's the link to my current books my book that is is called secrets and murders that is an

928
01:19:21,757 --> 01:19:31,217
on pre-order um and all my podcasts and essays everything is from this book so yeah my pre-order

929
01:19:31,217 --> 01:19:38,497
is going on right now and we are expecting maybe spring of 2027 for it to come out

930
01:19:38,497 --> 01:19:49,857
and yeah I'm working on another mystery book and in it I'm examining more relationships

931
01:19:49,857 --> 01:19:58,237
between different cultures mostly in like between Spain England and the U.S. you know the

932
01:19:58,237 --> 01:20:03,457
kind of attention that is going on at the personal level has nothing to do with politics

933
01:20:03,457 --> 01:20:09,797
zero. So I'm exploring a lot of that, a lot of interpersonal relationship between siblings,

934
01:20:10,097 --> 01:20:18,857
parents, kids. I'm just diving deep into that. So yeah, I think I'm taking a little bit of a break

935
01:20:18,857 --> 01:20:24,317
from just this different, it's a different what if to just really explore interpersonal

936
01:20:24,317 --> 01:20:29,497
relationships in this book. And I'm really enjoying it because I'm just, I'm like, keep

937
01:20:29,497 --> 01:20:33,817
writing and I just, things come out and all of that. So yeah. So that's again,

938
01:20:34,157 --> 01:20:39,897
hermanforward.com, everything about me and my work is on the website.

939
01:20:41,377 --> 01:20:45,757
Awesome. Well, thank you again for giving us some of your time. I really appreciate it. And thank

940
01:20:45,757 --> 01:20:51,257
you for giving us some of your time. You know where you can find us? We're everywhere podcasts

941
01:20:51,257 --> 01:20:58,817
play. We're also on YouTube, Spotify, always, that's podcast. Oh, and we just set up a Instagram

942
01:20:58,817 --> 01:21:00,857
account and you can also find us on

943
01:21:00,857 --> 01:21:02,797
Nostr. If you don't know what that is

944
01:21:02,797 --> 01:21:04,437
it's N-O-S-T-R

945
01:21:04,437 --> 01:21:06,257
Go look it up.

946
01:21:06,637 --> 01:21:08,097
Cool stuff or don't.

947
01:21:08,617 --> 01:21:10,737
If you liked us, give us thumbs up.

948
01:21:10,977 --> 01:21:12,717
If you didn't, go ahead and give us thumbs

949
01:21:12,717 --> 01:21:14,797
down. Leave a comment. Tell us we suck.

950
01:21:15,297 --> 01:21:16,837
We'll respond in kind.

951
01:21:17,897 --> 01:21:18,797
And remember

952
01:21:18,797 --> 01:21:20,677
wherever you are

953
01:21:20,677 --> 01:21:22,557
whenever you're watching this

954
01:21:22,557 --> 01:21:24,737
have an amazing day.

955
01:21:25,357 --> 01:21:26,877
Thanks Herman. See you everybody.

956
01:21:27,617 --> 01:21:28,677
Thanks for having me.

957
01:21:28,817 --> 01:21:50,757
Music