Eight Stages of Revolution - Intel Vet Rick Hoppe Maps the Path from Grievance to Rupture S3-EP8

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I feel like I should play the Jeopardy song or something.

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Now you're going to stick that in my head, aren't you?

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No.

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Earworms are the best.

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All right, everybody.

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Welcome back to another episode of the Space Tomatoes podcast.

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I'm one of your hosts, Havoc.

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I'm the other guy, LX.

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Hello.

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Welcome back.

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All those things.

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Hi, Rick.

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How are y'all doing?

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Great.

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Today we have with us a special guest, Rick Hoppe, a retired intelligence officer, military

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analyst, and author of Eight Stages, a Primer on Modern Revolution.

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Welcome to the show, Rick.

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I am really glad to be here. I'm looking forward to this.

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Awesome. Awesome.

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So what brought you to write a book like this,

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Eight Stages of Primer on Modern Revolution?

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That seems like a pretty heavy topic as well.

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Kind of a long, kind of a weird story.

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I've spent, I was in the intelligence community

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for just a little bit over 32 years,

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and most of the time in working the terrorism prevention angle,

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some counter-espionage stuff,

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and then found myself at one point in 2007 in Iraq,

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working on senior staff during the surge.

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And we would hang out until 2 o'clock in the morning

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because General Petraeus would have his commander's call at midnight.

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and quite often they come up and give us these last minute taskings.

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We call them drive-bys.

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And rather than walk in the next morning and have one laying on the desk,

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we figured we'd get it right as it cropped up.

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So we were hanging out and the counterintelligence

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and human intelligence officers stopped by.

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And I was tired.

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I was working 80 to 85 hours a week as it was and getting older.

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And I made a comment that this insurgency that was going on, it really smelled a lot like Mao's insurgency, three phases of an insurgency.

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And he said, write it up.

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And I did.

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But we were getting fired on.

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We were getting a lot of indirect fire missile and rocket fire every day, a lot of it.

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And that kind of went by the by, but it never quite left my head.

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And I'm a process guy.

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and it just felt like there was a process that was being followed,

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but not a checklist.

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It just felt that way.

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And so for years I kind of thought about it,

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and then about three years ago I fully retired

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and was messing around on my computer and found that paper.

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And so I did a little research, ran across a guy by the name of Jack Goldstone

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who wrote a wonderful book about revolutions.

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and that sparked it.

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And I spent probably 10 hours a day for the next two weeks

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diagramming and stress testing.

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And then one day I sat back and went,

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every revolution in the modern era since the mid 1700s

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has followed this path.

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Every doggone one of them,

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even the ones that didn't succeed in complete revolution,

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but there was an attempt,

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followed the path up to the point where it failed out.

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so i figured i'd write it up i sent it off to my publisher and he came back and goes rick let's do

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it and here we are did you what actually qualifies as a revolution is it just an insurgency like they

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want to overthrow a regime or i mean could a bunch of people looting and pillaging the downtown of a

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metro area qualify as a revolution or what is the definition on that actually that was one of the

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thorniest problems is because one of the things I learned long ago is you have to standardize and

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define the language. So if I say revolution, what are you thinking? You're probably thinking

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something slightly different. And then the next, and this is among analysts who are

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skilled and experienced, they'll all be thinking something slightly different. So I had to come up

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with a definition and a definition is when one group within any governance, all right, that could

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be a country, a region, but most likely, most usually a country, seeks to completely overthrow

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the current societal system and replace it with their own.

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It could be violent.

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It could be nonviolent.

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Usually it's violent.

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Usually there's blood.

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Usually there's barricades.

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But that would be it now Then you get into things like the BLM riots in 2021 People were going it was a revolution It wasn It was an uprising but it wasn a revolution

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So I had to spend a lot of time bouncing those definitions off of people that I trusted and people who thought deeply about it.

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Okay.

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How do you, what do you, so, okay, we have the definition of a revolution.

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I guess how does that

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where is the intersection when we start thinking about things like a coup

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or you know when you start thinking about things

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like okay you know well let's just go with that right a coup

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versus a revolution what would be the major difference there

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a coup is replacing the head of government

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90% of the time a lot of the people below him

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are going to stay, or if they do replace the entire government,

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they're going to fall in on the same basic governmental ethos,

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protocols, a lot of the laws and customs.

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Revolution seeks to get rid of it all and replace it with their version.

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And that seems counterintuitive because when you get rid of it all,

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what is left and my personal feeling and i can't prove it because i'm not a sociologist

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is that the people pushing the revolution don't care if it all tears down as long as

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they can rule over the rubble so how do you i'm not sure if you're uh familiar with the

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the works of, uh, I think it was Gene Sharp, um, from dictatorship to democracy. And part of that,

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you know, follows on with like the concept of a color revolution, right. Where, uh, you know,

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I think there, there is some idea of a plan of what needs to be shifted. Uh, and it, you know,

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I think quite often tries, at least tries, to be a peaceful revolution.

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Was that influential in your work at all, or are you familiar with it?

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Yeah, actually, I got the opportunity to spend a fair amount of time in Kiev.

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At the time it was Kiev, now it's Kiev, what's left of it.

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And this was 2014.

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and I went down to Freedom Square,

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which was just down the hill from our hotel.

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And it just loaded.

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And I'm also a Russian linguist, so most of it was in Russian

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or Ukrainian, which has the same root.

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I could kind of understand most of it.

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But huge displays about what happened down there,

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the color revolution.

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And it did affect my feelings.

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I have a great deal of empathy and respect for people who are willing to go to the mat for freedom.

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But color revolutions usually aren't.

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They're uprisings.

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The word revolution is just easily thrown around.

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There are requirements for a revolution to take place.

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And if you don't meet those requirements, it's not going to happen. Witness Iran right now, for example.

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So the color revolutions.

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Right. It's a tough one because of the fact that it's so I think to be very honest, I think we lack an understanding culturally.

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and we apply the same principles we apply to a lot of western you know countries etc and what we

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don't understand is this is a religious group of leadership so unless you take out their god

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it's just going to be another you know imam in place and the clerics they'll all vote on who's

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next and you know it's like taking out the pope you you it doesn't stop catholicism right um so

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um i can tell how brilliant you are you know i can tell how brilliant somebody is by how much

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they agree with you uh and my next book is on exactly that we don't analysts are not trained on

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how to analyze a revolutionary effort,

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to be able to determine whether it crosses from an attempt into revolution

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and at what stage they are, which also determines how you have to react to them.

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It's continual and it's affecting the way that we're

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prosecuting this conflict with Iran right now.

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Now the essential misunderstanding is the what you might call the center of gravity is not missiles it not tanks it not boats

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The center of gravity here to achieve what he's wanting to achieve is all of what's being done,

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but the people have not met the requirements that will enable them to follow through with a revolution.

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love them or not the cia used to do it very well because they would build the scaffolding

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on which revolution was built um don't get me started on cia and there's things i can still

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can't talk about actually fomented it and created the situation but the outcome uh i would just

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label it as an abject failure every single okay well watch my face oh no they never did that

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All right.

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Well, there were occasions where it worked.

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Whether it was desirable or not was eminently debatable, maybe.

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But so we don't have these requirements having been met.

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We haven't made the effort to build in the requirements or assist them.

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They have to develop the requirements themselves.

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and so as a result i i actually put something up on substack and the title of it was

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you can't bomb your way into a revolution and you can't no we can bomb them down to class

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you kind of tend to piss the people off that you're trying to get to actually revolt well

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they are getting upset because they were promised assistance they're getting assistance but it's

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kind of like having a three-year-old help you work on the car. It's not, it's assistance.

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It's not effective assistance. And if I sound very judgmental, I'm very frustrated about it.

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When I was trying to get this off the ground, I found that there is a lot of resistance

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to redefining how revolutions progress.

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And I don't know why.

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I'm not a political guy.

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I never have been.

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I have tried playing politics at office politics before.

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I was an abject failure.

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So I don't know why.

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All I know is now I've got a,

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there's a couple of people who have reviewed the book,

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or very high-end people who are eminently respectable

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that have said yes, absolutely.

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So I'm hoping that somehow that we no longer do these striving in vain things.

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If you want to fire off of, if you want to launch a jet from an aircraft carrier,

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there are things you have to do.

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It's a process.

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if you want a people to revolt in search of freedom there are steps that have there are

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things that have to happen and it's a process and it sounds counterintuitive uh for example did you

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know did you know that the where after 9-11 where was the largest pro-american demonstration in the

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world held Tehran yeah I was gonna say I think it was in the Middle East yeah

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Tehran and over a million people in sympathy for the US good people probably

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I think the region is is largely you know it's one of those things right I

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think in large part the people are probably very good people right that I

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I guess the question that I have is you say towards freedom, your idea of freedom, my idea of freedom and Alexa's idea of freedom all in the same country are probably moderately to vastly different.

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Right. So now you're talking about a country that's built upon a religion that's been around for thousands of years before us.

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and, you know, in some cases, thousands of years before Western culture in general.

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And the religion is part of their life, right?

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And in a large majority, not everyone.

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And so now you've got factions inside of that religion

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and you're asking them to decide upon what freedom looks like.

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But for the, you know, fundamentalist in the religion,

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and I don't mean that in like a, you know, jihadi kind of, you know, terrorist.

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I just mean fundamental. You've got fundamental Baptists. You've got fundamental Christians.

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You've got fundamental all of those things. What's going to look like freedom to them is going to

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look completely different to someone who may be Christian in that nation or someone who may be

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Jewish in that nation or someone who just purely atheistic So you know that the part I think we we often miss right is we want to tell people what freedom is But they may disagree with us

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Well, and that's that's another thing that we don't do.

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We have an idea of what freedom is.

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Your idea and mine will correlate to a pretty large degree with some substantive differences.

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um my experience has been i worked uh i had uh i worked around the world and uh worked the

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terrorism and insurgency thing and especially in iraq what i found was first off 99 of the people

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out there just want the crap to end they want to raise their goats to raise their crops raise their

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kids you know cuddle with their wives and uh drive their bongo trucks around selling produce

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I mean, they just want it to end.

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But, you know, when somebody's threatened to kill you, it's you have no choice.

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We had a deal.

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I was working at Martyrs Monument out in Baghdad in 2003.

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And there was a every night, not every night, probably four nights a week.

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Somebody from somebody in Baghdad would fire mortars and their old Soviet motors,

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border so you can see the sparks as they go overhead and they go overhead and they land in

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the lake every night two maybe three rounds so finally they tracked the guy down and brought him

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in and when they when the guys i was working with interrogated him he was he turned out he was an

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iraqi mortar sergeant and they were like what dude why why are you you can't hit us he goes

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ah they pay me 20 around to fire them at you they never paid me 20 around to hit you

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uh we found that a lot we they we uh one of teams i was working with went in to pick up a

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rocky colonel who'd gone on the run after the whole thing came apart and they asked the questions

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and found out he's working as a clerk in his family shop in downtown in the market district

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so when they pulled up out there they're thinking we're gonna have to go in and get him he took off

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his apron handed the uh apron to his wife kissed his wife on the forehead walked out and said shall

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we go. They just want it over with. What the problem is, is the Iranians can't just let it

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get over with. Sun Tzu said that you have to build every enemy a golden bridge across which to

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retreat. You have to give them an out. But the IRGC, the Basij, the secret police, the military,

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they don't have it out.

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If they drop their guard and drop their use of force to keep the population

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subjugated, they're going to end up like Mussolini was,

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torn apart by the women and hanging in pieces from a balcony.

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They got, there's no, it is either death or victory,

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and there's no gray for them.

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So we haven't, now is it up to us to create that?

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No, but I really wish that we'd have managed to figure that one out

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before we started firing million-dollar cruise missiles.

226
00:19:00,708 --> 00:19:03,089
I mean, yeah.

227
00:19:03,089 --> 00:19:04,468
Yeah, they've got nowhere else to go.

228
00:19:05,349 --> 00:19:08,948
And word's starting to come out, and I no longer have the clearance

229
00:19:08,948 --> 00:19:11,329
or the access to be able to tell you that, yes, this is all.

230
00:19:12,109 --> 00:19:14,849
I've seen it with my own eyes, but I have heard it enough from people

231
00:19:14,849 --> 00:19:23,029
who I trust that Basij and IRGC members are trying to figure a way out

232
00:19:23,029 --> 00:19:27,909
and they just can't find one because the Iranian people will.

233
00:19:28,589 --> 00:19:29,248
Go ahead.

234
00:19:29,869 --> 00:19:33,188
Well, I was going to say, I think in the current state of affairs,

235
00:19:33,188 --> 00:19:36,529
I think you could arguably say we're in the same position.

236
00:19:37,968 --> 00:19:41,909
We don't really have, I mean, what else are we going to do?

237
00:19:41,909 --> 00:19:47,289
keep bombing sand or bomb more of their civilian infrastructure and just tear down the buildings.

238
00:19:47,289 --> 00:19:54,089
And then the population, you know, as we've seen, has rallied behind these people, right? They

239
00:19:54,089 --> 00:19:59,508
wanted this. I've seen plenty of interviews with people saying, yes, I wanted this revolution. We

240
00:19:59,508 --> 00:20:05,889
want change. But now that you're bombing our stuff and putting me in danger and my killing my family

241
00:20:05,889 --> 00:20:08,669
and my friends, I've got no choice.

242
00:20:08,748 --> 00:20:10,849
It's an existential threat for them, right?

243
00:20:11,508 --> 00:20:16,129
So, you know, and for us, the decision becomes

244
00:20:16,129 --> 00:20:20,008
either, you know, light the entire region on fire,

245
00:20:20,629 --> 00:20:25,228
suffer massive cataclysmic, possibly economic consequences

246
00:20:25,228 --> 00:20:30,728
in doing so, or figure out a way to give them a win

247
00:20:30,728 --> 00:20:34,429
without it being a win, right?

248
00:20:34,429 --> 00:20:38,029
and it just seems like we're all really stuck

249
00:20:38,029 --> 00:20:43,029
between a rock and a hard place in this particular event.

250
00:20:45,649 --> 00:20:48,769
Well, I've given this a lot of thought,

251
00:20:48,769 --> 00:20:49,968
talked a lot with,

252
00:20:50,011 --> 00:20:54,551
You know, old intelligence agents. Here's a conversation between old intelligence officers.

253
00:20:55,631 --> 00:21:05,691
So I never mind. That's because you realize what you can't talk about, but you can talk about what you hear and what you see in open source.

254
00:21:07,191 --> 00:21:13,311
The Iranian people are. They're behind the effort.

255
00:21:13,311 --> 00:21:19,491
They're a little puzzled, read that to be a lot puzzled, as to its lack of efficacy.

256
00:21:21,031 --> 00:21:26,651
And they're starting to get down to the point where you don't have any choice, but you start

257
00:21:26,651 --> 00:21:28,831
bombing the things that you've been trying to stay away from.

258
00:21:29,471 --> 00:21:31,211
And already it's been bad enough.

259
00:21:32,091 --> 00:21:33,971
So what are you going to do next?

260
00:21:34,451 --> 00:21:41,691
So hence the administration's push for diplomacy, but they don't realize, or they do.

261
00:21:41,691 --> 00:21:43,571
I'm sure Marco Rubio was a smart man.

262
00:21:43,671 --> 00:21:45,031
I am absolutely certain of it.

263
00:21:45,451 --> 00:21:48,691
He realizes that he's not negotiating with one entity,

264
00:21:49,251 --> 00:21:51,751
that he's negotiating with the government.

265
00:21:52,291 --> 00:21:56,551
He's negotiating with the imams and the,

266
00:21:56,731 --> 00:21:58,711
what I call the domain of force,

267
00:21:58,811 --> 00:22:00,931
which would be the Basij and the IRG's meaning.

268
00:22:03,251 --> 00:22:07,591
The imams are answerable to other imams.

269
00:22:07,591 --> 00:22:11,571
So the grand, I think he's called the Grand Mufti,

270
00:22:11,691 --> 00:22:17,171
in Saudi Arabia, the nominal head of, or the senior guy,

271
00:22:17,271 --> 00:22:19,491
not the head of, but the senior guy in Islam,

272
00:22:20,331 --> 00:22:26,371
I'm sure is talking to the Shia brothers in Iran and saying,

273
00:22:26,631 --> 00:22:28,511
hey guys, really?

274
00:22:28,871 --> 00:22:30,551
Do you really think you're going to come out of this all right?

275
00:22:31,271 --> 00:22:38,991
And I'm sure that the government people from Dubai, UAE, Saudi, Kuwait,

276
00:22:39,751 --> 00:22:41,471
are all doing the same thing.

277
00:22:41,691 --> 00:22:47,051
but nobody tells the IRGC what to do except for the IRGC.

278
00:22:49,791 --> 00:22:53,511
And the problem is, is that if you don't let them do what they want,

279
00:22:54,491 --> 00:22:57,371
they have the world's best motivation for you to leave them alone.

280
00:22:57,371 --> 00:23:00,891
And that is they will, they will kill you and your family and your dog.

281
00:23:02,231 --> 00:23:06,931
So it is a thorny situation that got themselves into.

282
00:23:07,471 --> 00:23:09,511
I know why they did what they did.

283
00:23:09,511 --> 00:23:28,091
I believe that what we need to do is we need to move toward the ability to analyze and assess the world as it is, not as it was 20 years ago.

284
00:23:28,091 --> 00:23:37,571
the next book I'm working on right now is a an analyst handbook meant to be a sit it down in

285
00:23:37,571 --> 00:23:43,431
front of you and go through the steps to do governance and stability assessments on governments

286
00:23:43,431 --> 00:23:53,331
because a battle analyst counts tanks and howitzers and numbers of soldiers

287
00:23:53,331 --> 00:24:01,051
A logistics analyst counts number of trucks and bridges and condition of roads and aircraft.

288
00:24:01,711 --> 00:24:08,071
A shipping analyst calculates ports, tons of shipping, number of cargo containers.

289
00:24:09,231 --> 00:24:13,211
What does a revolutionary analyst analyze?

290
00:24:15,711 --> 00:24:18,791
I'm sure that there's somebody out there that's coming up with this stuff.

291
00:24:18,791 --> 00:24:22,471
it needs to be defined and

292
00:24:22,471 --> 00:24:29,171
I'd say a good place to start is every one of them should probably read

293
00:24:29,171 --> 00:24:33,311
Edward Benet's book, you know, Psychology of the Crowd

294
00:24:33,311 --> 00:24:40,811
Well, you've got a thing there that I hadn't

295
00:24:40,811 --> 00:24:45,131
delved into real far, but the whole preference cascade

296
00:24:45,131 --> 00:24:50,531
you get enough people believing one way and there's a lot of people are going to jump on

297
00:24:50,531 --> 00:24:56,671
that bandwagon just to go along but you've got to reach that tipping point whether it's

298
00:24:56,671 --> 00:25:04,151
a level of influence or number of people I'm not sure again I'm not a sociologist so

299
00:25:04,151 --> 00:25:10,651
there are too many things and again the second book that I'm working on is

300
00:25:10,651 --> 00:25:17,131
it's kicking my butt because it is a lot deeper than what I thought it was going to be.

301
00:25:17,871 --> 00:25:23,891
But I've reached here last week, the point where I am pretty comfortable with the way it's going.

302
00:25:23,891 --> 00:25:29,291
And it's, you have to think differently because you're looking at different things for a different

303
00:25:29,291 --> 00:25:39,491
outcome. It's not military analysis. It's not economic analysis. It's all of it and how they

304
00:25:39,491 --> 00:25:47,491
interact so it's uh i'm just kind of wondering how little ricky hoppy from biller ridge missouri

305
00:25:47,491 --> 00:25:53,411
managed to get in this position i haven't figured that one out yet you seen a mirror lately

306
00:25:57,251 --> 00:26:09,208
i try to avoid them so when you talking about tipping the scales like to get people to go one way or the other on something like that were you involved with any of that

307
00:26:09,208 --> 00:26:16,988
Like what we would call propaganda or, you know, kind of swaying people to go one way or the other on anything like that?

308
00:26:17,228 --> 00:26:19,788
Oh, you're talking about psychological operations, psyops?

309
00:26:19,888 --> 00:26:20,708
Yeah, right.

310
00:26:21,848 --> 00:26:22,328
No.

311
00:26:23,208 --> 00:26:23,548
No.

312
00:26:23,968 --> 00:26:24,448
No.

313
00:26:24,568 --> 00:26:26,028
I know of it.

314
00:26:26,128 --> 00:26:27,408
I have heard of it.

315
00:26:27,508 --> 00:26:37,188
i literally have never met anybody who was involved in it which is a little weird uh because i met

316
00:26:37,188 --> 00:26:45,108
people that did all kinds of cool crazy and technologically advanced things but i've never

317
00:26:45,108 --> 00:26:50,928
met any of those but i am certain i'll put my little foil hat on like i feel like i'm the target

318
00:26:50,928 --> 00:26:56,408
of it every day when like social media and stuff to a certain extent you are and that's the other

319
00:26:56,408 --> 00:26:58,508
book I'm doing is called Citizenship

320
00:26:58,508 --> 00:26:59,728
in the Algorithmic Age.

321
00:27:00,868 --> 00:27:01,048
It's

322
00:27:01,048 --> 00:27:06,248
hard to find data

323
00:27:06,248 --> 00:27:07,728
on it because

324
00:27:07,728 --> 00:27:10,308
the same people who want

325
00:27:10,308 --> 00:27:12,308
to publish have to use algorithms

326
00:27:12,308 --> 00:27:13,928
to be able to market what they're publishing.

327
00:27:14,448 --> 00:27:15,308
A little difficult.

328
00:27:16,148 --> 00:27:18,048
That's another one that I'm

329
00:27:18,048 --> 00:27:19,728
with any luck

330
00:27:19,728 --> 00:27:22,348
and the crick don't rise. I'll have

331
00:27:22,348 --> 00:27:24,148
that one done by next year and have it out

332
00:27:24,148 --> 00:27:26,388
and then endure the slings

333
00:27:26,388 --> 00:27:29,728
and arrows that are going to come my way, but you're exactly correct.

334
00:27:29,728 --> 00:27:34,728
You are living inside of a worldwide information operation.

335
00:27:36,328 --> 00:27:36,968
And that's the other thing.

336
00:27:37,108 --> 00:27:38,728
It's so I'm not crazy.

337
00:27:39,268 --> 00:27:40,588
No, you're not.

338
00:27:41,068 --> 00:27:42,088
No, you're not.

339
00:27:42,168 --> 00:27:44,148
You are being algorithmically curated.

340
00:27:44,368 --> 00:27:45,188
Excuse me.

341
00:27:46,148 --> 00:27:48,988
Who knew that you could be allergic to an elm tree?

342
00:27:49,208 --> 00:27:49,848
I know.

343
00:27:49,928 --> 00:27:50,488
I know now.

344
00:27:51,248 --> 00:27:51,888
Yeah.

345
00:27:51,888 --> 00:28:02,848
the uh you're living inside of an algorithmic uh cage that is built around you and uh we have

346
00:28:02,848 --> 00:28:17,028
two choices we can either become uh better educated and uh shape it or crawl inside any

347
00:28:17,028 --> 00:28:23,988
either of you have dogs where you have a crate that they go into well you can either be outside

348
00:28:23,988 --> 00:28:31,428
the crate or you can be inside and uh too many people are comfortable inside because

349
00:28:31,428 --> 00:28:35,068
how else are you going to get recommendations for cute kitty videos

350
00:28:35,068 --> 00:28:42,008
yeah it's exactly you're not crazy you can you can watch this stuff in real time right you go to

351
00:28:42,008 --> 00:28:49,748
any, you know, of the large social media platforms and whatever your feed is currently do a search

352
00:28:49,748 --> 00:28:52,068
for something completely off topic on that.

353
00:28:52,288 --> 00:28:54,448
Hover over that, interact with it real quick.

354
00:28:54,568 --> 00:28:57,908
Now go back to your feed and start scrolling and about half of it's going to be filled

355
00:28:57,908 --> 00:28:58,708
with that new stuff.

356
00:28:58,808 --> 00:29:00,788
Spend a little more time on that new stuff.

357
00:29:00,868 --> 00:29:01,948
Don't even interact with it.

358
00:29:02,088 --> 00:29:05,048
Just leave it on the screen for just a little bit more time.

359
00:29:05,128 --> 00:29:10,508
Next thing you know, feed reset, you're on, you know, kitty videos or whatever.

360
00:29:10,508 --> 00:29:16,968
kitty cat kitty cat videos okay here was an experiment an experiment that i did

361
00:29:16,968 --> 00:29:24,008
was i was on a podcast about two weeks ago and talking and it was run by an old friend of mine

362
00:29:24,008 --> 00:29:32,408
i've known this guy for 20 years and i said let's do a little experiment here while we were in iraq

363
00:29:32,408 --> 00:29:38,628
uh the aussies drove land land rovers and not the fancy grocery getters we're talking

364
00:29:38,628 --> 00:29:41,528
the real serious ones that don't have any frills,

365
00:29:41,768 --> 00:29:47,728
but you can drive them through a volcano

366
00:29:47,728 --> 00:29:50,448
and come out the other side, change the tires, and keep moving.

367
00:29:51,748 --> 00:29:52,928
And we talked about that.

368
00:29:52,928 --> 00:29:55,128
We talked about that the Aussie Sergeant Major,

369
00:29:55,328 --> 00:29:58,188
the guys got in and changed the lettering on the front,

370
00:29:58,268 --> 00:30:00,108
and it went from Land Rover to Lard Lover,

371
00:30:00,988 --> 00:30:03,268
which I thought was funny,

372
00:30:03,268 --> 00:30:06,068
but I wouldn't want to have been on the receiving end of an Aussie Sergeant Major.

373
00:30:06,868 --> 00:30:08,188
So we talked about that.

374
00:30:08,188 --> 00:30:09,748
And he said, why are you doing that?

375
00:30:09,748 --> 00:30:10,828
And I said, just an experiment.

376
00:30:11,728 --> 00:30:16,748
I got so many ads for Land Rovers, and I didn't type a word.

377
00:30:16,908 --> 00:30:18,808
I just talked about it on a podcast.

378
00:30:19,668 --> 00:30:22,308
So then I went in and said, how do they do that?

379
00:30:22,308 --> 00:30:26,088
So I took a recording that I had done.

380
00:30:26,328 --> 00:30:31,248
My cousin and I are working on a movie, and I did some narration.

381
00:30:31,428 --> 00:30:37,468
I said, can I drop just that sound file into AI and give me an accurate transcript?

382
00:30:37,468 --> 00:30:38,768
And the answer to that is yes.

383
00:30:39,828 --> 00:30:47,888
So I went ahead and dropped the transcript from my friends who got the transcript from the podcast into AI.

384
00:30:48,548 --> 00:30:50,388
And I said, analyze that.

385
00:30:50,708 --> 00:30:54,508
And it came in and it pulled out the product recommendations.

386
00:30:56,608 --> 00:30:57,888
So is it happening?

387
00:30:58,048 --> 00:30:59,308
Oh, yeah, it is.

388
00:31:00,168 --> 00:31:01,808
Is it happening every day, all day?

389
00:31:01,868 --> 00:31:02,128
Yes.

390
00:31:02,128 --> 00:31:06,508
And most of us climb into the crate and close the door behind us willingly.

391
00:31:07,468 --> 00:31:07,748
Yep.

392
00:31:08,368 --> 00:31:09,548
Most of us, not all of us.

393
00:31:10,268 --> 00:31:20,344
I think most Americans probably think of things like revolutions as something that happens somewhere else Like there no possibility that it could ever happen here

394
00:31:20,504 --> 00:31:30,864
How do we know that there's not other forces in play that are trying to do the very same things that the United States is doing to other countries to get an outcome?

395
00:31:31,764 --> 00:31:35,264
Well, first off, it is happening and it happens everywhere and it happens all the time.

396
00:31:35,264 --> 00:31:38,944
Here is something that is very controversial.

397
00:31:38,944 --> 00:31:46,204
most countries in the world are in one stage or another of revolution at all times.

398
00:31:47,784 --> 00:31:49,824
So take that as a given.

399
00:31:50,504 --> 00:31:54,324
Most countries, if not all, I think probably all, but there may be some that aren't.

400
00:31:55,784 --> 00:31:59,944
And then you got to go ahead and compare it to.

401
00:32:02,704 --> 00:32:03,924
You just do an analysis.

402
00:32:04,184 --> 00:32:06,784
I do a newsletter called Faultline that talks about this.

403
00:32:08,944 --> 00:32:13,104
The number one area that is in danger of revolution,

404
00:32:13,304 --> 00:32:16,064
a danger that is imminently in a revolution, is around.

405
00:32:18,964 --> 00:32:21,624
Just guess what continent number two is in.

406
00:32:22,904 --> 00:32:23,564
Ours?

407
00:32:24,584 --> 00:32:25,964
Yep, Canada.

408
00:32:28,044 --> 00:32:29,164
Freaking Canada.

409
00:32:30,124 --> 00:32:33,604
So let's put some of that down if you don't mind.

410
00:32:33,604 --> 00:32:38,924
So your book, Eight Stages, I have to imagine there are eight stages.

411
00:32:38,944 --> 00:32:53,004
Can you, I'm trying to tie together the eight stages that you've come up with, with kind of, let's take a look at, you know, North America, Canada, let's take a look at the U.S. Where do we fit on that, right?

412
00:32:53,004 --> 00:33:03,784
Because there's a feeling in the air, you know, and there's a good, healthy portion of the population that's, you know, kind of in that, you know, mindset, if you will.

413
00:33:04,124 --> 00:33:11,104
And if I recall correctly, it takes an insignificant percentage of the population to kick something like that off.

414
00:33:11,784 --> 00:33:13,204
Three percent, I believe.

415
00:33:14,224 --> 00:33:16,584
I think three percent is possibly overstating it.

416
00:33:16,584 --> 00:33:19,424
There are tent poles.

417
00:33:19,424 --> 00:33:24,264
so I'm just going to run through the eight stages real quick

418
00:33:24,264 --> 00:33:26,704
and we'll tweak on them

419
00:33:26,704 --> 00:33:28,204
stage one is incubation

420
00:33:28,204 --> 00:33:31,764
and that's where grievances get from general griping

421
00:33:31,764 --> 00:33:34,564
I don't like this, I got a ticket from the cop

422
00:33:34,564 --> 00:33:40,764
to overall dissatisfaction and grievances

423
00:33:40,764 --> 00:33:43,624
it hasn't gone any farther than that

424
00:33:43,624 --> 00:33:44,564
and that's incubation

425
00:33:44,564 --> 00:33:46,184
and it can last decades

426
00:33:46,184 --> 00:33:49,244
the U.S. is continually

427
00:33:49,244 --> 00:33:50,224
at a stage one

428
00:33:50,224 --> 00:33:53,304
when it's not escalated

429
00:33:53,304 --> 00:33:53,924
any farther

430
00:33:53,924 --> 00:33:56,484
just because of their nature of government

431
00:33:56,484 --> 00:33:58,724
and we take our right to address

432
00:33:58,724 --> 00:34:00,244
our grievances seriously

433
00:34:00,244 --> 00:34:02,924
stage two is

434
00:34:02,924 --> 00:34:04,884
organization and that's where affinity groups

435
00:34:04,884 --> 00:34:05,504
start forming

436
00:34:05,504 --> 00:34:08,284
so you get Republicans against Trump

437
00:34:08,284 --> 00:34:10,584
you get this thing and that thing

438
00:34:10,584 --> 00:34:12,304
and they organize

439
00:34:12,304 --> 00:34:14,364
and gather more people

440
00:34:14,364 --> 00:34:15,964
because there is power in numbers

441
00:34:15,964 --> 00:34:25,104
If I can put 10 people on the ground for a demonstration or a protest, that's not bad.

442
00:34:25,184 --> 00:34:25,684
That's okay.

443
00:34:26,644 --> 00:34:36,544
If I can organize and put 50 people on the ground, then people start listening and sitting up and paying attention.

444
00:34:38,124 --> 00:34:39,904
So you feel like you're doing something.

445
00:34:41,024 --> 00:34:42,904
So that's stage two.

446
00:34:43,004 --> 00:34:44,584
Stage three is activation.

447
00:34:44,584 --> 00:34:50,144
That is a stage three is where you go from.

448
00:34:50,804 --> 00:34:52,424
We all get together and do what?

449
00:34:52,664 --> 00:34:55,004
Well, in the military, we call it admiring the problem.

450
00:34:55,504 --> 00:34:59,344
We all get together and go, that's a problem and it's big and wow.

451
00:34:59,924 --> 00:35:00,264
All right.

452
00:35:00,284 --> 00:35:00,984
See you next week.

453
00:35:01,044 --> 00:35:01,264
Okay.

454
00:35:01,284 --> 00:35:01,784
Next week.

455
00:35:02,104 --> 00:35:03,524
That problem is still there.

456
00:35:04,004 --> 00:35:05,484
That's kind of stage two.

457
00:35:06,124 --> 00:35:13,844
Stage three is where they go from admiring the problem to addressing it, defining it.

458
00:35:13,844 --> 00:35:18,624
and coordinating action of some type, usually political,

459
00:35:18,984 --> 00:35:21,364
to try to address the problem,

460
00:35:21,464 --> 00:35:25,604
where suddenly you go from Democrats or Republicans against Trump

461
00:35:25,604 --> 00:35:28,744
to a political action committee

462
00:35:28,744 --> 00:35:32,084
that's actively raising money against the administration.

463
00:35:33,044 --> 00:35:35,284
And I want to get something straighter.

464
00:35:35,284 --> 00:35:40,824
I am inherently kind of conservative financially, fiscally.

465
00:35:40,824 --> 00:35:44,984
I am a social moderate to the dismay of some people.

466
00:35:47,164 --> 00:35:53,264
But this system, this book and this process are completely apolitical.

467
00:35:53,784 --> 00:35:56,784
They apply to right-wing revolutions, left-wing revolutions,

468
00:35:57,064 --> 00:36:01,064
and popular revolutions, which are very few, but they do occur.

469
00:36:01,804 --> 00:36:05,124
So when they start activating, that's where people start getting together

470
00:36:05,124 --> 00:36:06,284
and actually taking action.

471
00:36:06,284 --> 00:36:11,284
that's where you start seeing not violence,

472
00:36:11,284 --> 00:36:15,284
but coordinated violence start to appear very little,

473
00:36:15,284 --> 00:36:16,284
a little bit at a time.

474
00:36:16,284 --> 00:36:18,284
Like flock cameras being sawed off at the during.

475
00:36:18,284 --> 00:36:22,284
Dude, I was thinking about the flock camera thing the whole time.

476
00:36:22,284 --> 00:36:32,840
Yeah and what you got to do is if you are intending to try to take this to its culmination to a termination stage eight

477
00:36:33,140 --> 00:36:39,060
then you have to early on identify your combat troops because when you reach stage four,

478
00:36:39,140 --> 00:36:42,300
now stage three is where the U.S. is right now.

479
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,680
It's a very stable stage three.

480
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:51,000
There is not anywhere near enough popular dissatisfaction.

481
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:55,840
in Rick's not so humble opinion because I'm not a humble guy,

482
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,320
for them to go any farther.

483
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:02,760
They're flirting with stage four.

484
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:04,260
It could get there.

485
00:37:05,260 --> 00:37:06,780
I'd be very surprised.

486
00:37:07,620 --> 00:37:09,040
I've got a bed with a friend.

487
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:13,500
You wouldn't say that the act of destruction of the problem

488
00:37:13,500 --> 00:37:18,440
that has been identified and discussed is part of stage four?

489
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:20,880
No, stage four is bad.

490
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:29,080
stage four where you go from we are upset we don't like it we're gonna uh we're gonna demonstrate

491
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:34,240
and get out in front of the ice facility and we're going to uh urinate on your tires and slash

492
00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:40,160
our and that's stage three it's advanced stage three and keep in mind these are all in a in a

493
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:47,920
they're not break point stages where you go oh no this tumbled over into stage four it's a it's a

494
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:54,420
spectrum it's a continuum okay so they're we're in stage three just we get for clarification on

495
00:37:54,420 --> 00:38:02,020
that do do they do they overlap and and or merge at any point or can they or is this pretty hard

496
00:38:02,020 --> 00:38:11,440
and defined once it hits this point it's it's no longer at the previous point um there are usually

497
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:19,760
i don't know i've i've i've been a painter and so one of the things i found was the hard thing about

498
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:25,000
shading one color of paint into another so there's no demarcation line

499
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:34,220
uh i'm not a very good painter i'm just i'm a painter but this is very similar it's there is no

500
00:38:34,220 --> 00:38:42,280
solid demarcation line inherent in any of the stages and they usually will flow

501
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:48,540
seamlessly from one to the other and the other thing is is they're not linear you can go from

502
00:38:48,540 --> 00:38:56,620
one to two to three jump clean over four go to five fail go back to two and start over again and

503
00:38:56,620 --> 00:39:03,260
it's still the same revolution it recurses okay and can and does and sorry for the interruption

504
00:39:03,260 --> 00:39:05,080
No, no, no, please.

505
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,140
I break out the podium.

506
00:39:08,380 --> 00:39:12,840
I put on my teacher's wig and start propounding.

507
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:15,320
And so I'm going to apologize.

508
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,480
I just, I find it incredibly fascinating.

509
00:39:19,940 --> 00:39:22,440
So stage four is where everything changes.

510
00:39:23,340 --> 00:39:28,380
Once you hit stage four, solid stage four, nothing will ever be the same.

511
00:39:28,500 --> 00:39:29,260
It may solidify.

512
00:39:30,020 --> 00:39:31,720
You may not end up changing the government,

513
00:39:31,720 --> 00:39:37,600
but you can't ever go back and stage four is rupture and rupture is when there is a complete

514
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:48,640
break in uh okay there's a term that i use called legitimacy and legitimacy is the ability of a

515
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:53,500
government to govern whether they're right they're wrong they're benevolent they're dictatorial

516
00:39:53,500 --> 00:39:58,740
they're tyrannical it doesn't matter if they're legitimate it means that they are still able to

517
00:39:58,740 --> 00:40:05,840
govern. Stage four is when all of these affinity groups and all of this political action and all

518
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:13,080
of this physical action starts to roll up together and you get that cascade. And once you have that

519
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:21,460
cascade happen, rupture happens, and there is a complete break from the past. Whether you go back

520
00:40:21,460 --> 00:40:28,720
and you defeat the revolutionary forces, nothing will ever be the same. So that's the one to watch.

521
00:40:28,740 --> 00:40:47,360
And we aren't in a rupture. We kind of flirt with it a little bit. The current electoral politics are worth watching, but yet they are following politics. It's not extra legal. They're using the system the way that it was designed.

522
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:58,860
um i guess uh and again right i'm i'm kind of thinking of of just a lot of different areas

523
00:40:58,860 --> 00:41:03,840
right now but one of them is that there is you know a growing community of people actually

524
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:11,860
doing this right they're like you know we we no longer recognize this as legitimate uh we you know

525
00:41:11,860 --> 00:41:14,680
as our own documents state, right?

526
00:41:15,740 --> 00:41:20,200
The power is derived from the consent of the governed.

527
00:41:20,740 --> 00:41:22,560
And they're saying, I'm done.

528
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:27,400
I no longer consent to this and building kind of their own little,

529
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:32,160
you know, as much as they can, you know, the whole concept is exit and build.

530
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:33,100
Right.

531
00:41:33,100 --> 00:41:39,960
So I guess my question is what I know about these people and these groups is they're

532
00:41:39,997 --> 00:41:45,837
non-violent. They want nothing to do with violence outside of pure self-defense.

533
00:41:47,357 --> 00:41:53,037
Yep. Has that ever, has that ever worked? And, and I think it has in a couple of areas,

534
00:41:53,037 --> 00:41:57,397
right? There's a town in Mexico and for the life of me, I can't remember, but they kicked all their

535
00:41:57,397 --> 00:42:02,057
politicians and the mayor and the governor and all the police force and everyone out and just said,

536
00:42:02,117 --> 00:42:08,297
nope, we're, we're governing ourselves now. But I guess the question is, does it necessarily

537
00:42:08,297 --> 00:42:15,417
become violent or at that point um and you know part of my my you know spidey sense tangling goes

538
00:42:15,417 --> 00:42:21,217
yes it does but not by the people trying to just exit and build by the people coming and saying oh

539
00:42:21,217 --> 00:42:28,257
no you owe us your allegiance no matter what or we'll you know kill you or cage you or make you

540
00:42:28,257 --> 00:42:36,077
know whatever yeah and that's i i was sitting here freaking out while you're talking because

541
00:42:36,077 --> 00:42:41,917
literally this morning after having my coffee, I was sitting down and doing some work on the new

542
00:42:41,917 --> 00:42:47,277
book and I came up with my perfect, what I consider my definition of legitimacy. And I wrote it down,

543
00:42:47,277 --> 00:42:56,097
so I had to find it. Legitimacy is the permission to govern granted by the governed, governed by

544
00:42:56,097 --> 00:43:05,257
positive action or purposeful inaction. All right. And so it's more important than force. It's built

545
00:43:05,257 --> 00:43:11,117
on trust, not trust that you're going to do what's right for me. But I know that if I don't pay my

546
00:43:11,117 --> 00:43:17,837
bribe to the block captain, I'm not going to be able to park on that specific area. So I know that

547
00:43:17,837 --> 00:43:22,457
when I pay that bribe, I'm going to have my parking space. That's the trust I'm talking about.

548
00:43:23,537 --> 00:43:34,017
And then you lose that legitimacy very slowly until you hit four, late stage four, and it just

549
00:43:34,017 --> 00:43:43,557
goes away so if you your your observations are right on the money and that we can we can dance

550
00:43:43,557 --> 00:43:52,537
around three we can dance around in four uh at some point legitimacy either erodes or gets

551
00:43:52,537 --> 00:43:59,337
solidified it can't stay at four it just never can and it always happens that way that makes sense

552
00:43:59,337 --> 00:44:07,437
So, stage five is, I wrote something down this morning too, and I want to make sure I've got the latest thinking on this.

553
00:44:09,757 --> 00:44:14,437
Yeah, I'm redoing the definition on that one.

554
00:44:15,837 --> 00:44:16,777
It's collapse.

555
00:44:17,617 --> 00:44:22,977
Now, I had initially said and thought that that meant that the government collapsed.

556
00:44:22,977 --> 00:44:28,357
but the government uh and this was an example in the french revolution the government struggled

557
00:44:28,357 --> 00:44:34,617
to stay intact but they were no longer able to effectively govern at that point their legitimacy

558
00:44:34,617 --> 00:44:42,117
had totally collapsed and uh as we say in texas there weren't nobody listening so they could stand

559
00:44:42,117 --> 00:44:48,337
on the street corner and scream you have to listen to me what was that lieutenant in uh animal house

560
00:44:48,337 --> 00:44:51,517
at the end. I can't remember. Kevin Bacon played him.

561
00:44:52,577 --> 00:44:56,857
But people just flat are going to go about their own way.

562
00:44:57,517 --> 00:45:00,897
You also talked about violence. I have yet to find

563
00:45:00,897 --> 00:45:04,917
one revolution that did not turn bloody to some level.

564
00:45:06,277 --> 00:45:09,117
Whether it was all of them.

565
00:45:11,217 --> 00:45:13,477
And that indicates to me

566
00:45:13,477 --> 00:45:16,557
that there is one of the factors when you're doing

567
00:45:16,557 --> 00:45:20,537
analysis of revolutionary activity or possible activity

568
00:45:20,537 --> 00:45:25,457
is you have to do a full assessment of the governing body's ability

569
00:45:25,457 --> 00:45:29,917
to project force and their willingness to project force.

570
00:45:32,657 --> 00:45:37,837
Mao said that political power comes out the end of a gun.

571
00:45:42,277 --> 00:45:45,697
Either the bullet or just the threat.

572
00:45:46,557 --> 00:45:48,077
Both have to be real.

573
00:45:48,637 --> 00:45:53,097
And it's that coercive power that government has.

574
00:45:54,417 --> 00:45:55,857
You don't want to pay your taxes.

575
00:45:56,037 --> 00:45:57,417
Well, they're not going to come shoot you.

576
00:45:58,297 --> 00:46:02,257
They're just going to ruin your life and take away all your stuff.

577
00:46:03,877 --> 00:46:04,617
So there's that coercive power.

578
00:46:04,617 --> 00:46:06,517
Why do we stop for stop signs or red lights?

579
00:46:06,997 --> 00:46:08,817
There's a consequence behind it.

580
00:46:09,857 --> 00:46:10,557
Yep, exactly.

581
00:46:10,557 --> 00:46:16,537
I would argue that the reason I do it is so I don't get smashed by someone else doing the same on the other way.

582
00:46:16,557 --> 00:46:21,377
you know well say say it's the middle of the night and you're sitting there and the

583
00:46:21,377 --> 00:46:26,277
no red light's not changing i mean like i mean you're gonna look and say make sure there's a cop

584
00:46:26,277 --> 00:46:32,737
not there first before you know because well sure i used i used to ride a motorcycle and it was just

585
00:46:32,737 --> 00:46:38,877
hell pulling up to a stop and it's got one of those buried induction loops to trigger motorcycle

586
00:46:38,877 --> 00:46:43,737
ain't big enough and to have enough iron in it to trigger it and you can sit there and you'll never

587
00:46:43,737 --> 00:46:44,797
and get that green arrow.

588
00:46:45,297 --> 00:46:46,837
And I sat there and sat there.

589
00:46:46,877 --> 00:46:59,853
There was a cop sitting in the Dairy Queen not 100 feet away He looked at me and I looked at him and I just smiled and waved and ran the red light and he stayed right where he was He could see what was happening Yeah I heard that happening when I was younger pulled up

590
00:47:00,013 --> 00:47:02,653
It was actually a scooter, so it was even worse.

591
00:47:03,233 --> 00:47:07,613
Pulled up to the red light after dropping my girlfriend off at her donut job.

592
00:47:08,073 --> 00:47:09,313
I was very young.

593
00:47:09,473 --> 00:47:11,773
I think I was 17 at the time, and I'm sitting there,

594
00:47:11,773 --> 00:47:14,053
and there's a cop in the parking lot,

595
00:47:14,053 --> 00:47:17,613
And, you know, it's not changing for me.

596
00:47:18,013 --> 00:47:23,473
Finally, I see him come out and he pulls up right behind me and goes, just go through the light.

597
00:47:25,293 --> 00:47:25,813
Okay.

598
00:47:29,773 --> 00:47:30,253
Yeah.

599
00:47:32,093 --> 00:47:32,993
Excuse me.

600
00:47:32,993 --> 00:47:37,673
it is those

601
00:47:37,673 --> 00:47:40,873
if you can trust that there's going to be consequences

602
00:47:40,873 --> 00:47:45,053
then you therefore are admitting that the government is legitimate

603
00:47:45,053 --> 00:47:49,053
there is a book by Robert Heinlein called

604
00:47:49,053 --> 00:47:50,153
The Moon is a Harsh Mistress

605
00:47:50,153 --> 00:47:53,953
and it's a long political

606
00:47:53,953 --> 00:47:57,193
thought experiment

607
00:47:57,193 --> 00:47:59,633
when you actually kind of analyze a little bit

608
00:47:59,633 --> 00:48:02,473
and one of the things is they've introduced the concept of what's called

609
00:48:02,473 --> 00:48:04,253
a rational anarchist.

610
00:48:05,053 --> 00:48:06,433
And a rational anarchist

611
00:48:06,433 --> 00:48:08,593
will obey any laws

612
00:48:08,593 --> 00:48:09,973
that they consider to be just,

613
00:48:10,733 --> 00:48:13,013
break any laws that they consider to be unjust,

614
00:48:13,133 --> 00:48:14,613
and if they get caught and imprisoned,

615
00:48:15,333 --> 00:48:17,073
they readily admit

616
00:48:17,073 --> 00:48:18,273
that they broke the law

617
00:48:18,273 --> 00:48:20,393
and take their lumps

618
00:48:20,393 --> 00:48:22,813
rather than trying to weasel out of it.

619
00:48:23,933 --> 00:48:25,013
That's a little bit

620
00:48:25,013 --> 00:48:26,713
too on the nose for me,

621
00:48:26,853 --> 00:48:27,873
but on the other hand,

622
00:48:28,993 --> 00:48:30,973
how many times

623
00:48:30,973 --> 00:48:32,093
have you pulled up to a

624
00:48:32,093 --> 00:48:35,613
oh, here in Texas, we lose power sometimes.

625
00:48:36,773 --> 00:48:39,753
And every light in town, during the big freeze in 2021,

626
00:48:40,493 --> 00:48:41,653
every light in town was out.

627
00:48:42,613 --> 00:48:45,213
There was nobody else out and around because nobody else stupid enough

628
00:48:45,213 --> 00:48:47,053
to get out on nothing but solid ice.

629
00:48:48,113 --> 00:48:53,133
So I just went ahead and rolled right on through because I could see all ways.

630
00:48:53,653 --> 00:48:56,453
And I'm sure that if there had been a cop there, they would have just gone.

631
00:48:56,593 --> 00:48:57,633
Yeah, I understand it.

632
00:48:57,633 --> 00:49:02,073
but on the other hand, the other day I misjudged the light.

633
00:49:02,193 --> 00:49:05,333
It was turning yellow and it was solid red by the time I went through it.

634
00:49:06,033 --> 00:49:08,273
And I was just, I just told my wife, I said, if they,

635
00:49:08,413 --> 00:49:10,733
if the cop pulls out from somewhere, I didn't see him.

636
00:49:10,793 --> 00:49:15,233
I'm just going to roll down the window and go airs license registration.

637
00:49:15,433 --> 00:49:18,473
Yeah, no sweat. Write me the ticket. I did it.

638
00:49:21,513 --> 00:49:25,553
So we are bathed here in this country in legitimacy.

639
00:49:25,553 --> 00:49:28,173
We are absolutely bathed in it.

640
00:49:28,253 --> 00:49:29,473
Yes, there is corruption.

641
00:49:29,673 --> 00:49:31,033
You better believe there is.

642
00:49:31,873 --> 00:49:37,253
Hideous corruption in some instances, minor petty BS corruption in others.

643
00:49:39,413 --> 00:49:46,913
But when you go down and you sign up at the DMV and pay your tab every year for your plates,

644
00:49:47,493 --> 00:49:51,213
you can pretty well trust you're not going to get pulled over for bad plates.

645
00:49:51,213 --> 00:49:55,713
if you get people together

646
00:49:55,713 --> 00:49:59,073
they're at least going to have some level of serviceable roads

647
00:49:59,073 --> 00:50:02,673
whether they keep up with the potholes or not

648
00:50:02,673 --> 00:50:04,973
at some level they're going to be there

649
00:50:04,973 --> 00:50:08,173
I talked with an Iraqi colonel who came to the US

650
00:50:08,173 --> 00:50:12,373
and he was absolutely amazed that all the telephone poles are lined up

651
00:50:12,373 --> 00:50:13,413
and standing up straight

652
00:50:13,413 --> 00:50:17,053
because we can pretty well trust that that's going to happen

653
00:50:17,053 --> 00:50:18,053
Okay.

654
00:50:18,053 --> 00:50:27,173
So, yeah, my little bell went off there.

655
00:50:27,173 --> 00:50:31,933
So, I mean, honestly though, the roads have nothing to do with government, right?

656
00:50:31,933 --> 00:50:36,333
Government does some planning, they do some funding and then they hire a private contractor

657
00:50:36,333 --> 00:50:37,953
to go and do a road, right?

658
00:50:37,953 --> 00:50:39,953
Usually that their buddy owns.

659
00:50:39,953 --> 00:50:40,953
Yeah.

660
00:50:40,953 --> 00:50:42,533
The same is true for road maintenance.

661
00:50:42,533 --> 00:50:44,533
The same is true for power poles.

662
00:50:44,533 --> 00:50:46,853
The same is true for power infrastructure.

663
00:50:46,853 --> 00:50:48,073
The same is true for bridges.

664
00:50:48,333 --> 00:50:49,833
The same is true for railways.

665
00:50:50,533 --> 00:51:00,733
There's no government office that has like, oh, here's our pool of railway workers or here's our pool of utility workers, right?

666
00:51:01,393 --> 00:51:14,913
So I see what you're saying, but you're lending legitimacy based on the fact that a private entity did something and the government used money from the public to fund that thing.

667
00:51:14,913 --> 00:51:23,353
okay um if if you look at it slightly if you look at it though if your city is full of potholes

668
00:51:23,353 --> 00:51:27,733
are you going to have screaming people with pitchforks outside the

669
00:51:27,733 --> 00:51:32,873
company that poured the road or you're going to have them standing outside the city hall

670
00:51:32,873 --> 00:51:41,473
well where the money came from is from us and it went to an entity who is arguably not very good at

671
00:51:41,473 --> 00:51:45,853
their job and wasteful. Uh, and then you have potholes. So yeah,

672
00:51:45,853 --> 00:51:49,273
the pitchforks go to the people that took the money in the first place to get

673
00:51:49,273 --> 00:51:53,953
the job done, not the actual subcontractor that the builder you hired.

674
00:51:54,293 --> 00:51:58,633
Uh, you know, okay. And you, you understand what flows downhill.

675
00:51:59,113 --> 00:52:18,029
Oh absolutely Of course you been around long enough So uh I hear what you saying But what I talking about I talking in macro sense Revolutions aren going to start because of potholes They not going to start because of potholes and run down city facilities or government facilities

676
00:52:18,029 --> 00:52:24,849
they're going to run down when the level of dissatisfaction and grievance has reached a pitch,

677
00:52:25,429 --> 00:52:33,529
has seen no relief, no redressment, retrenchment on those grievances.

678
00:52:34,749 --> 00:52:41,129
And it has reached such a pitch that the people have gotten together and have jointly,

679
00:52:41,329 --> 00:52:47,709
whether they say it or not, decided that government no longer has legitimacy to govern.

680
00:52:48,029 --> 00:52:52,309
it expresses itself in lots of ways.

681
00:52:52,309 --> 00:52:54,949
If you look at the American revolution,

682
00:52:55,189 --> 00:52:58,669
then you look at the French revolution,

683
00:52:58,669 --> 00:53:02,949
people kind of conflate the two until you dig into the details.

684
00:53:04,229 --> 00:53:05,829
Really, really vastly different.

685
00:53:06,089 --> 00:53:09,169
They just happen to be in rough in,

686
00:53:09,249 --> 00:53:12,069
in about the same time of year is about as close as they got.

687
00:53:12,949 --> 00:53:13,749
So it,

688
00:53:14,249 --> 00:53:17,569
but when you're looking at a macro level at a large strokes,

689
00:53:18,029 --> 00:53:22,589
It follows because it's not who is actually responsible.

690
00:53:23,209 --> 00:53:26,549
It's who gets blamed for being responsible.

691
00:53:27,469 --> 00:53:27,529
Okay.

692
00:53:28,329 --> 00:53:30,349
Perception, I think, has a lot to do with it.

693
00:53:31,029 --> 00:53:33,989
And that's very perceptive of you.

694
00:53:34,649 --> 00:53:37,269
But, yeah, you're exactly – yeah, it is.

695
00:53:38,709 --> 00:53:43,509
Your firm perception is your reality, whether it is objective reality or not.

696
00:53:44,669 --> 00:53:45,069
Okay.

697
00:53:45,069 --> 00:53:53,429
So, yeah, but you've got a good point, Havoc, is that is what there are.

698
00:53:53,709 --> 00:53:58,529
One chapter of the book is about how to avoid a revolution.

699
00:53:59,909 --> 00:54:02,229
Those things you have to do to avoid it.

700
00:54:03,889 --> 00:54:05,929
One of which is empower the middle.

701
00:54:06,649 --> 00:54:13,209
The middle class is busy raising families, going to work, trying to find the ultimate cheeseburger.

702
00:54:13,209 --> 00:54:17,389
and trying the latest craft brew, but going,

703
00:54:17,549 --> 00:54:19,529
no, I'll go back to my same old standard.

704
00:54:21,629 --> 00:54:23,209
They make the wheels turn,

705
00:54:23,669 --> 00:54:27,309
and they don't make that big of a deal about it.

706
00:54:27,509 --> 00:54:29,549
But if they're not empowered,

707
00:54:30,769 --> 00:54:34,629
then they don't have, they're not able to be a steadying influence

708
00:54:34,629 --> 00:54:38,369
on the ebb and flow of the way that politics runs.

709
00:54:40,009 --> 00:54:42,589
But on the other hand, people have to be,

710
00:54:43,209 --> 00:54:45,589
citizens and good citizens.

711
00:54:46,669 --> 00:54:51,489
If a government is doing what you don't like, vote.

712
00:54:52,229 --> 00:54:54,569
Don't sit on your butt, admire the problem.

713
00:54:55,869 --> 00:54:56,329
Go vote.

714
00:54:57,589 --> 00:55:03,069
So if the government has contracted a,

715
00:55:03,189 --> 00:55:06,129
and this actually happened here in the town I used to live in,

716
00:55:06,889 --> 00:55:10,789
a water treatment plant, which had these cement tanks

717
00:55:10,789 --> 00:55:12,989
where they did various water treatment things to it.

718
00:55:12,989 --> 00:55:14,569
I don't know what all was involved in.

719
00:55:15,329 --> 00:55:19,969
And eight years after they built them, the tanks started separating and cracking

720
00:55:19,969 --> 00:55:21,829
and the walls started falling out.

721
00:55:23,089 --> 00:55:28,169
And the government of the city went in and said, well, we've got to get new tanks.

722
00:55:29,549 --> 00:55:32,009
And I worked concrete.

723
00:55:33,629 --> 00:55:36,769
6,000 PSI concrete just doesn't crack.

724
00:55:38,049 --> 00:55:40,649
A foot thick, 6,000 PSI concrete.

725
00:55:40,649 --> 00:55:48,809
so my feeling wasn't for all my sins I was a city councilman at the time I'll never do that again

726
00:55:48,809 --> 00:55:56,349
and my feeling was that no we go find this company and we hold their nose to the fire we make them

727
00:55:56,349 --> 00:56:01,929
come back out here and do it right because they didn't do it right we've never had that problem

728
00:56:01,929 --> 00:56:09,749
before or since so that was done wrong and it needs to be taken care of um but

729
00:56:09,749 --> 00:56:16,549
But by extension, there are many arms to this octopus of legitimacy.

730
00:56:18,389 --> 00:56:31,689
But ultimately responsible are the people who have the ability to use force to coerce behavior.

731
00:56:32,609 --> 00:56:37,569
Now, that's as far as I can get into sociology because I'm also not a psychologist,

732
00:56:37,569 --> 00:56:41,489
though I have been through group therapy for PTSD

733
00:56:41,489 --> 00:56:44,289
but I'm not a psychologist

734
00:56:44,289 --> 00:56:48,749
but that seems to me to be the way of it

735
00:56:48,749 --> 00:56:51,309
is that the government in the end

736
00:56:51,309 --> 00:56:53,089
is actually ultimately responsible

737
00:56:53,089 --> 00:56:55,829
for ensuring that it's done correctly

738
00:56:55,829 --> 00:56:57,349
and maybe they have not

739
00:56:57,349 --> 00:57:01,409
or ensuring that proper budgeting is done

740
00:57:01,409 --> 00:57:04,069
so that the money is there to repair the road

741
00:57:04,069 --> 00:57:04,869
for example

742
00:57:04,869 --> 00:57:28,026
but that also Rick opinion yeah no and I think you know that I think there a lot of dissatisfaction you you know you brought up a point that I think a lot of people share I also think there a very large growing number of people that don share that any longer

743
00:57:28,026 --> 00:57:39,586
You know, and I, you know, looking back at my history, I can remember Jimmy Carter and I can remember every administration since then.

744
00:57:40,246 --> 00:57:51,006
And the one thing that I, you know, I would, I would say is, you know, there is definitely a growing dissatisfaction with people who feel like there is no representation any longer.

745
00:57:51,006 --> 00:57:58,806
that voting is literally just, you know, a feel good, you know, give them bread and circus type of event.

746
00:57:59,306 --> 00:58:06,026
Because you vote ostensibly on someone who's going to run on the platform that they said they would run on,

747
00:58:06,106 --> 00:58:12,366
then they get in and very little, if anything, that they ran on ever occurs.

748
00:58:12,606 --> 00:58:19,966
And then you see the popular, you know, opinions on things out there and they constantly vote against them,

749
00:58:19,966 --> 00:58:29,646
even though their own, you know, their own people that they're supposed to be representing are saying, you know, hey, 72% of us want this.

750
00:58:29,886 --> 00:58:32,866
And they're like, yeah, no, I don't think I'll do that.

751
00:58:33,786 --> 00:58:36,766
And so there's a growing dissatisfaction there.

752
00:58:36,806 --> 00:58:43,426
And I think that's pretty evident, no matter where you go, that people are feeling like this doesn't matter.

753
00:58:43,686 --> 00:58:48,826
It really, you can put a cat in there and it's all going to go the exact same way it's been going.

754
00:58:48,826 --> 00:58:53,826
And we could just have cats running around on the floor of Congress.

755
00:58:53,826 --> 00:58:54,526
That's a good idea.

756
00:58:55,026 --> 00:59:00,186
And then it would probably actually be better because what's Congress's approval rating at this point?

757
00:59:00,606 --> 00:59:01,006
13%.

758
00:59:01,006 --> 00:59:06,386
Like 17% or something that's down to the point where it's almost immeasurable.

759
00:59:07,126 --> 00:59:07,266
Yeah.

760
00:59:07,386 --> 00:59:12,766
And so, you know, again, right, you look at this whole idea of the consent of the governed.

761
00:59:12,766 --> 00:59:23,026
And what starts coming about is more of a, in my opinion, is more of a everything is enforced at the point of a gun, right?

762
00:59:23,346 --> 00:59:24,726
Traffic ticket.

763
00:59:25,566 --> 00:59:31,746
If you don't agree and respond appropriately, they'll issue a warrant.

764
00:59:31,866 --> 00:59:37,686
And if they issue a warrant and you go, yeah, I'm not going to allow you to take me into a cage, then they'll come with guns.

765
00:59:37,686 --> 00:59:41,246
And if you resist the guns, then there's going to be a shootout, right?

766
00:59:41,246 --> 00:59:46,086
And so every single thing comes down to the threat of death.

767
00:59:46,626 --> 00:59:47,186
Right.

768
00:59:47,626 --> 00:59:58,266
And that doesn't seem like a legitimacy that you can hold on to unless you're willing to go to the level of, say, a mouth or a linen.

769
00:59:58,466 --> 00:59:59,826
I'd be careful talking like that.

770
00:59:59,866 --> 01:00:01,126
You're going to end up on another list.

771
01:00:03,106 --> 01:00:03,946
What was that?

772
01:00:04,026 --> 01:00:04,986
Knock at your door?

773
01:00:05,926 --> 01:00:08,506
I'm not going to wait for you to get it because you're not coming back.

774
01:00:08,646 --> 01:00:09,086
So I'm just.

775
01:00:09,086 --> 01:00:14,686
I already had my concerns letting an ex-intelligence guy on here.

776
01:00:14,786 --> 01:00:15,646
I'm like, I don't know, man.

777
01:00:15,746 --> 01:00:17,286
I think you just must be setting us up.

778
01:00:17,866 --> 01:00:19,266
The word is ex, man.

779
01:00:19,526 --> 01:00:20,206
It's ex.

780
01:00:21,226 --> 01:00:22,826
And then I wasn't in that side of it.

781
01:00:24,186 --> 01:00:25,446
Ex-intelligence guys.

782
01:00:25,686 --> 01:00:29,706
You don't see too many of them pop up on YouTube and doing podcasts.

783
01:00:29,926 --> 01:00:32,546
What makes you different than these other guys that are?

784
01:00:32,546 --> 01:00:37,706
I mean, are they just sitting in their swivel chair, like masterminding other operations?

785
01:00:37,706 --> 01:00:44,986
if you're if you're in the business long enough and you are experienced enough

786
01:00:44,986 --> 01:00:55,026
and uh people know of your level of experience you may actually retire but there are a lot of

787
01:00:55,026 --> 01:01:02,306
functions out there that really need periodically somebody to come in and do them so to be able to

788
01:01:02,306 --> 01:01:12,546
do that, you got to maintain the clearance. When I fully retired, I was doing a fair amount of

789
01:01:12,546 --> 01:01:18,866
travel and doing some stuff, just support things. Once you retire, you're pretty well in just

790
01:01:18,866 --> 01:01:23,986
support roles. But you've got the ability to go in and pass on decades of knowledge to younger

791
01:01:23,986 --> 01:01:32,106
folks about don't do this, don't try that, this works, this doesn't. And a health issue means that

792
01:01:32,106 --> 01:01:40,106
I can't travel like I used to. And then I realized that after 32 years,

793
01:01:41,246 --> 01:01:52,666
worked in 87 countries, filled three passports, had just one hell of a career and an extraordinary

794
01:01:52,666 --> 01:01:59,826
life. When my wife passed, I went, you know, I'm done. I'm just done. It's time to,

795
01:01:59,826 --> 01:02:02,666
But Rick 2.0 needs to figure it out.

796
01:02:03,146 --> 01:02:08,546
And so I have the ability to talk about it because in the end they can't cancel me.

797
01:02:08,626 --> 01:02:09,886
I'm not saying anything classified.

798
01:02:10,786 --> 01:02:17,446
But on the other hand, you got to keep in mind, we sign nondisclosure agreements that are in perpetuity.

799
01:02:18,206 --> 01:02:25,506
And if you violate that nondisclosure agreement, the penalties are severe with the force of federal law.

800
01:02:26,326 --> 01:02:28,746
So there are things you'll never get me to say.

801
01:02:28,746 --> 01:02:29,946
I'm not going to talk about it.

802
01:02:29,982 --> 01:02:35,622
about it. I'm not going to say yes or no, or you're right. I'm just going to just give you a

803
01:02:35,622 --> 01:02:40,462
blank stare and wait to move on to the next subject. But within the arc of what I can't

804
01:02:40,462 --> 01:02:45,742
talk about, there's a lot of stuff. So thinking on that, right? I imagine,

805
01:02:45,982 --> 01:02:53,022
excuse me, you know, talking about writing your book and getting your book all put together,

806
01:02:53,022 --> 01:02:58,242
I imagine you probably had to send that up to the DOD for approval, clearance.

807
01:02:59,002 --> 01:03:06,322
Did that come back with a lot of markups, or did you even have to do that, or was that all okay?

808
01:03:07,162 --> 01:03:09,482
Yeah, my first book was a memoir.

809
01:03:10,762 --> 01:03:14,622
And the first half of it, I had to do some rewriting.

810
01:03:15,682 --> 01:03:19,002
The second half was just dripped black ink.

811
01:03:19,002 --> 01:03:21,682
so I had to

812
01:03:21,682 --> 01:03:23,202
I just I went ahead and

813
01:03:23,202 --> 01:03:25,242
we went to publication anyway

814
01:03:25,242 --> 01:03:27,942
you know and I think it sold

815
01:03:27,942 --> 01:03:28,882
88 copies

816
01:03:28,882 --> 01:03:31,442
but

817
01:03:31,442 --> 01:03:33,602
hard to read the black boxes

818
01:03:33,602 --> 01:03:35,442
yeah well

819
01:03:35,442 --> 01:03:36,482
and the

820
01:03:36,482 --> 01:03:39,762
security

821
01:03:39,762 --> 01:03:41,442
clearance not security clearance

822
01:03:41,442 --> 01:03:43,962
I forget what they call it

823
01:03:43,962 --> 01:03:45,802
anyway that office where we send it

824
01:03:45,802 --> 01:03:47,302
first off it takes months

825
01:03:47,302 --> 01:03:51,222
because it's a government office and it takes months.

826
01:03:51,962 --> 01:03:57,682
But secondly, with this current book, I took nothing from my military time,

827
01:03:58,102 --> 01:04:01,642
nothing from my intel time, nothing from the time I was cleared.

828
01:04:02,322 --> 01:04:06,242
And not only that, but I have a detailed list of where I got every bit of information.

829
01:04:06,242 --> 01:04:09,422
So if they want to come back and say, you've been a bad boy,

830
01:04:09,502 --> 01:04:13,022
I'm going to tell them I have not and you can get out of my house.

831
01:04:13,022 --> 01:04:19,242
uh okay it sounds unnecessarily confrontational this is one where i didn't have to get clearance

832
01:04:19,242 --> 01:04:25,882
on it okay so how was the process of writing the book did this flow naturally was it difficult

833
01:04:25,882 --> 01:04:28,242
um

834
01:04:28,242 --> 01:04:33,722
i trained a long time to

835
01:04:33,722 --> 01:04:41,962
to do the job the counterintelligence job and the human intelligence job

836
01:04:41,962 --> 01:04:48,202
and then I got into senior staff and found out that I like doing processes,

837
01:04:49,262 --> 01:04:50,722
that good processes,

838
01:04:51,422 --> 01:04:57,542
they make things easier and they save lives in the,

839
01:04:57,582 --> 01:05:02,382
in the long run. And so I approached this from a process standpoint.

840
01:05:03,182 --> 01:05:08,042
And one of my biggest problems was I finally had to download dictation

841
01:05:08,042 --> 01:05:13,402
software that turned my dictation into notes because it would just start rolling and I

842
01:05:13,402 --> 01:05:15,782
couldn't keep up with it, typing it.

843
01:05:18,582 --> 01:05:20,482
Yeah, it just kind of rolled.

844
01:05:20,622 --> 01:05:21,042
It did.

845
01:05:21,182 --> 01:05:23,382
It was a little weird.

846
01:05:24,782 --> 01:05:28,322
I've been struggling to learn how to write.

847
01:05:28,962 --> 01:05:31,262
That doesn't sound like an intelligence report.

848
01:05:31,262 --> 01:05:35,942
and when I finally hit that stride,

849
01:05:36,082 --> 01:05:39,362
all that had been waiting just to be expressed.

850
01:05:40,862 --> 01:05:43,002
So now I know how to write and I can't stop.

851
01:05:43,082 --> 01:05:44,862
I probably have five books in the works,

852
01:05:45,682 --> 01:05:47,482
three of which are probably going to make it.

853
01:05:47,562 --> 01:05:51,162
Two of them are fiction, and we just see how it goes.

854
01:05:52,322 --> 01:05:53,742
I'm old. I've got hobbies.

855
01:05:54,782 --> 01:05:56,502
Hey, you got to have them, right?

856
01:05:56,942 --> 01:05:57,742
I mean, you stop having them.

857
01:05:57,742 --> 01:05:58,362
Speaking of fiction,

858
01:05:58,362 --> 01:06:01,442
What do you think of stuff like Tom Clancy?

859
01:06:01,642 --> 01:06:03,682
I mean, we've all seen like Jack Ryan and stuff.

860
01:06:03,802 --> 01:06:07,622
I mean, is any of that even close to what the reality is,

861
01:06:07,642 --> 01:06:09,462
or is it all just Hollywood nonsense?

862
01:06:09,722 --> 01:06:14,062
Have you seen the first episode of the first Jack Ryan thing with John Krasinski?

863
01:06:15,022 --> 01:06:15,302
Yeah.

864
01:06:15,382 --> 01:06:18,802
The first episode where he's, no, O Dark Thirty.

865
01:06:20,622 --> 01:06:21,582
That O Dark Thirty.

866
01:06:22,602 --> 01:06:24,662
I got chills.

867
01:06:26,302 --> 01:06:26,782
Okay.

868
01:06:27,342 --> 01:06:28,202
Pretty close.

869
01:06:28,362 --> 01:06:34,002
the whole thing about waterboarding and torturing the guy that doesn't happen

870
01:06:34,002 --> 01:06:41,882
it doesn't happen maybe it happens at a pakistani prison or a an afghan prison but when you're in

871
01:06:41,882 --> 01:06:48,842
u.s custody it uh it just doesn't happen it just a little bit of smacking around uh electrodes on

872
01:06:48,842 --> 01:06:54,462
the nipples with the and uh grave well here's the thing we don't talk about that that didn't happen

873
01:06:54,462 --> 01:06:58,182
Yeah, I went through the Israeli interrogation course.

874
01:06:59,262 --> 01:07:02,242
And the Israelis, everybody's going, well, they're probably torturing.

875
01:07:02,382 --> 01:07:03,222
No, not at all.

876
01:07:05,102 --> 01:07:07,942
Everybody naturally wants to tell you everything that they know.

877
01:07:08,062 --> 01:07:08,922
They naturally want to.

878
01:07:09,542 --> 01:07:12,322
People are garrulous, gregarious.

879
01:07:14,902 --> 01:07:15,982
They're societal.

880
01:07:17,022 --> 01:07:19,502
They like having groups of people they can talk to.

881
01:07:20,782 --> 01:07:24,022
But, for example, it's a little bit politically incorrect.

882
01:07:24,022 --> 01:07:28,502
when you go up to the bar for them somebody you say hey bud how you doing is they ah let's see

883
01:07:28,502 --> 01:07:34,042
well i got the car fixed today and i killed my wife and kids it's just politically incorrect

884
01:07:34,042 --> 01:07:49,245
so but they want to but they want to and uh once we finished the course i found that it actually worked my back the biggest problem was is not using that when I trying to get one of my kids to fess up about who broke mama base

885
01:07:49,805 --> 01:07:57,225
Right. Yeah. So, yeah, it they everybody likes to make them all out to be the bad guys.

886
01:07:57,365 --> 01:08:02,565
And I'm not saying they wouldn't if they could. It just really is not very effective.

887
01:08:03,065 --> 01:08:07,125
And it's kind of like lie detectors, polygraph machines.

888
01:08:07,485 --> 01:08:09,645
they're a good tool,

889
01:08:10,325 --> 01:08:14,125
but they're no better than the investigator who's using the tool.

890
01:08:16,205 --> 01:08:17,765
So it, yeah, it,

891
01:08:18,365 --> 01:08:21,745
there are a lot of misconceptions out there about, about the field.

892
01:08:21,745 --> 01:08:25,525
And the closest I ever got to James Bond was bond paper.

893
01:08:26,545 --> 01:08:32,745
My office car that I use for operations in Europe was a 1967 Volkswagen

894
01:08:33,465 --> 01:08:34,885
Beetle. It was green.

895
01:08:34,885 --> 01:08:40,505
and every once in a while the brake linkages would come off and dangle on the road behind me

896
01:08:40,505 --> 01:08:47,085
and then about once a year it would blow one of the cylinders and i'd have to have it towed in

897
01:08:47,085 --> 01:08:50,505
and they would just literally yank out the engine and put a new one in and off i'd go

898
01:08:50,505 --> 01:08:57,465
so uh and then the fast woman was my wife who i was married to for 42 years uh so yeah

899
01:08:57,465 --> 01:09:10,145
it's it's it's satisfying work it's hard and it's uh at times it's a little bit scary but

900
01:09:10,145 --> 01:09:19,185
if they actually showed what we did you wouldn't the show wouldn't last two two episodes

901
01:09:19,185 --> 01:09:26,345
yeah yeah i i play this in front of my daughter so she'll go to sleep at night you know that kind

902
01:09:26,345 --> 01:09:34,385
of a thing yeah nice awesome so if you could go back 32 years and tell yourself something would

903
01:09:34,385 --> 01:09:37,605
you tell yourself to change anything or do anything differently you think

904
01:09:37,605 --> 01:09:47,425
i would have made sure that my young self knew that if you want to piss off an organization go

905
01:09:47,425 --> 01:09:48,585
in and solve their problems.

906
01:09:50,665 --> 01:09:51,225
And

907
01:09:51,225 --> 01:09:54,405
number two,

908
01:09:54,865 --> 01:09:57,345
if you can get something done that nobody

909
01:09:57,345 --> 01:09:58,705
else has managed to get done,

910
01:09:59,305 --> 01:10:01,385
the people who couldn't succeed are going

911
01:10:01,385 --> 01:10:03,585
to remember that

912
01:10:03,585 --> 01:10:05,325
forever.

913
01:10:06,425 --> 01:10:07,305
They have long

914
01:10:07,305 --> 01:10:07,605
memories.

915
01:10:10,005 --> 01:10:10,945
And three,

916
01:10:11,145 --> 01:10:12,765
if you allow that to stop you,

917
01:10:14,645 --> 01:10:16,065
you're a coward.

918
01:10:17,425 --> 01:10:24,485
I came out of Iraq after some startling successes and couldn't find a job.

919
01:10:25,585 --> 01:10:26,205
Wow.

920
01:10:26,625 --> 01:10:30,645
Because I, well, I have a tendency to get linear and run over people.

921
01:10:30,765 --> 01:10:31,685
I understand it.

922
01:10:33,125 --> 01:10:36,225
You don't like hiring a disruptor.

923
01:10:38,025 --> 01:10:39,465
But that's okay.

924
01:10:39,785 --> 01:10:40,885
That's just absolutely fine.

925
01:10:42,785 --> 01:10:44,425
Everything happens for a reason.

926
01:10:44,425 --> 01:10:53,845
and all that left me where i am right now and i couldn't be happier couldn't be happier

927
01:10:53,845 --> 01:10:57,725
well if we ever decide to start a revolution i'm gonna call you

928
01:10:57,725 --> 01:11:08,745
if you decide to start a revolution don't call because i'm just saying i'm just i'm not saying

929
01:11:08,745 --> 01:11:14,825
anything in particular i'm just saying uh if you're going to play at uh cosplay and revolution

930
01:11:14,825 --> 01:11:21,485
go ahead and call no problem they can understand that uh but it yeah

931
01:11:21,485 --> 01:11:28,045
uh and also on top of it keep in mind that maybe your phone isn't monitored

932
01:11:28,045 --> 01:11:36,205
mine probably isn't monitored but have people out there that that would contract that stuff

933
01:11:36,205 --> 01:11:37,385
and figure it out.

934
01:11:39,265 --> 01:11:41,085
And I'm not talking about U.S. people.

935
01:11:42,285 --> 01:11:45,585
Every signal that we got right now is probably popping through a server

936
01:11:45,585 --> 01:11:49,945
somewhere in Mexico, Canada, Germany, Italy.

937
01:11:51,005 --> 01:11:54,225
It'd be interesting to go ahead and do the route trace on it

938
01:11:54,225 --> 01:11:55,265
to see where all this goes.

939
01:11:55,945 --> 01:12:00,545
So just as an example, I went into Tbilisi,

940
01:12:01,125 --> 01:12:04,025
the Republic of Georgia, to do some stuff.

941
01:12:04,025 --> 01:12:06,625
and it was really kind of innocuous open stuff.

942
01:12:06,685 --> 01:12:07,265
It was no big deal.

943
01:12:07,625 --> 01:12:09,105
And I went in with a work phone,

944
01:12:09,565 --> 01:12:11,465
got in at like 2 o'clock in the morning

945
01:12:11,465 --> 01:12:13,905
because there are no flights to get into Tbilisi

946
01:12:13,905 --> 01:12:15,765
coming out of the States that would get there

947
01:12:15,765 --> 01:12:17,225
at anything other than 2 o'clock in the morning.

948
01:12:17,965 --> 01:12:19,105
So I get into the hotel

949
01:12:19,105 --> 01:12:22,125
and my partner's coming in from another country

950
01:12:22,125 --> 01:12:24,725
and I'm going to, I wanted to be up to be able to meet him.

951
01:12:25,385 --> 01:12:27,045
And so I went down to the hotel

952
01:12:27,045 --> 01:12:29,845
and they had what the guy called Tbilisi lemonade,

953
01:12:29,845 --> 01:12:33,745
which was lemonade with muddled mint in it,

954
01:12:33,745 --> 01:12:36,745
which was just freaking awesome for somebody who was dehydrated.

955
01:12:37,585 --> 01:12:40,125
And I'm sitting there and I got the phone sitting on the table.

956
01:12:40,885 --> 01:12:44,605
And I'm like, well, where's, where's our partner at?

957
01:12:44,645 --> 01:12:46,065
So I pick up the phone to see if he called.

958
01:12:46,585 --> 01:12:49,845
There were four missed phone calls and it never rang.

959
01:12:51,625 --> 01:13:01,008
I like well that doesn make any sense And it would have a missed phone call that wouldn ring about every hour hour and a half throughout the day

960
01:13:02,248 --> 01:13:07,068
So the following day, my partner's in and we got it Sunday

961
01:13:07,068 --> 01:13:08,448
and we can't get anything done on Sunday.

962
01:13:08,588 --> 01:13:10,068
So we're going to go and walk around Tbilisi.

963
01:13:11,368 --> 01:13:13,628
And we get about two blocks down the street.

964
01:13:13,628 --> 01:13:18,468
And I noticed these two guys, very nice haircuts, windbreakers.

965
01:13:19,988 --> 01:13:22,108
Casual pants, shine shoes.

966
01:13:23,368 --> 01:13:26,128
And I'm like, their buddies are out.

967
01:13:26,208 --> 01:13:27,188
You know, it's fine.

968
01:13:27,808 --> 01:13:31,868
We get down, down to the wine museum and here's these guys.

969
01:13:32,928 --> 01:13:36,368
We go ahead and get onto the cable car that goes to the wine museum up on top,

970
01:13:36,428 --> 01:13:37,928
up to the monument on top of the hill.

971
01:13:39,028 --> 01:13:43,368
And we're walking out and I stop at this little kiosk,

972
01:13:43,368 --> 01:13:44,608
go ahead and grab something to drink.

973
01:13:45,088 --> 01:13:48,288
And I turn the next cable car comes up and here's these guys.

974
01:13:48,288 --> 01:13:55,408
so i'm like okay they're keeping track they're keeping tabs on us we're not doing anything that

975
01:13:55,408 --> 01:13:59,808
we care about you know so i kind of got to the point where i'm like yeah i just checked to make

976
01:13:59,808 --> 01:14:02,808
sure they're still with us you know they're probably getting graded on this or something

977
01:14:02,808 --> 01:14:10,028
uh we got back into the states and turned in the phone at work it was so badly infected with spyware

978
01:14:10,028 --> 01:14:12,168
that they had to destroy the phone.

979
01:14:12,668 --> 01:14:14,308
They could not physically clean it.

980
01:14:16,028 --> 01:14:19,028
So all of that occurs.

981
01:14:20,008 --> 01:14:24,668
If your phone pings into an MTZ network anywhere in the world,

982
01:14:25,068 --> 01:14:27,708
you're pinging into Russian FSB.

983
01:14:29,148 --> 01:14:35,568
If it's Huawei, everything you do and say goes through Chinese servers.

984
01:14:36,788 --> 01:14:37,868
Where is it?

985
01:14:37,868 --> 01:14:41,568
Shanghai, outside of Shanghai, I think I've heard.

986
01:14:46,968 --> 01:14:48,468
It's just a fact of life.

987
01:14:48,548 --> 01:14:50,328
It's just the way it is in our connectivity.

988
01:14:52,168 --> 01:14:56,448
The only thing we have to be thankful for is we are swimming in data.

989
01:14:58,108 --> 01:14:59,468
Analysts swim in it.

990
01:14:59,848 --> 01:15:03,728
They are keeping their nose above water, barely.

991
01:15:04,848 --> 01:15:07,688
There aren't enough people to be able to analyze it.

992
01:15:07,868 --> 01:15:08,928
It's not.

993
01:15:09,068 --> 01:15:12,348
The problem is they're creating capability.

994
01:15:12,588 --> 01:15:13,968
That's why we need AI.

995
01:15:14,088 --> 01:15:18,148
I was just going to say with the AI right now, that's no longer an issue.

996
01:15:18,368 --> 01:15:21,668
You know, those large language models take pools of data that.

997
01:15:22,608 --> 01:15:24,468
AI has got a couple of problems.

998
01:15:24,608 --> 01:15:32,688
One is sometimes they are not only wrong, they are incredibly hilariously wrong.

999
01:15:33,308 --> 01:15:34,708
And you can't tell what.

1000
01:15:34,708 --> 01:15:42,868
but that is engineering that's all it is yeah so that's part of that again that book

1001
01:15:42,868 --> 01:15:50,388
yeah well yeah and then the that's why the book that i'm working on citizenship in the algorithmic

1002
01:15:50,388 --> 01:15:55,888
age it uh what are we going to look like what are we how are we going to live because it's coming

1003
01:15:55,888 --> 01:16:00,688
where everything will be subject to the algorithm where your lives will be curated

1004
01:16:00,688 --> 01:16:05,308
and there will be benefits to letting it happen

1005
01:16:05,308 --> 01:16:09,128
as well as consequences to trying to resist it.

1006
01:16:09,668 --> 01:16:10,708
So what are you going to do?

1007
01:16:12,288 --> 01:16:14,368
I don't know how long it's going to take me to write it

1008
01:16:14,368 --> 01:16:19,008
because the pace of change is outstripping my ability

1009
01:16:19,008 --> 01:16:21,668
to keep up with the writing.

1010
01:16:24,608 --> 01:16:25,168
Me?

1011
01:16:25,468 --> 01:16:30,028
Just to relate 1984 and that's the end state.

1012
01:16:30,028 --> 01:16:30,568
So start.

1013
01:16:32,488 --> 01:16:34,388
I would disagree with you.

1014
01:16:34,388 --> 01:16:35,068
Maybe it will start a revolution.

1015
01:16:35,288 --> 01:16:38,048
We can ditch our cell phones and start writing letters and postcards.

1016
01:16:38,108 --> 01:16:39,248
I would disagree with you about that.

1017
01:16:39,348 --> 01:16:40,448
I don't think it will start.

1018
01:16:40,528 --> 01:16:41,788
I don't think that's the end state.

1019
01:16:41,888 --> 01:16:46,248
I think that is the current state to a large degree.

1020
01:16:46,948 --> 01:16:47,568
Fully agree.

1021
01:16:48,568 --> 01:16:49,248
Fully agree.

1022
01:16:50,968 --> 01:16:55,348
There are sayings out there like you can vote your way into socialism and communism.

1023
01:16:55,568 --> 01:16:56,928
You have to shoot your way out.

1024
01:16:57,628 --> 01:16:59,368
I think there's a certain truth to that.

1025
01:17:00,028 --> 01:17:12,588
But also, if you believe that we are not all animals are equal, some are more equal than others, I think is a truism.

1026
01:17:15,008 --> 01:17:16,628
I'm a former warrant officer.

1027
01:17:16,788 --> 01:17:18,028
I have a tendency to be cynical.

1028
01:17:18,028 --> 01:17:24,448
but when you have a an elite class who

1029
01:17:24,448 --> 01:17:34,408
seems somehow on 175 000 a year salary come out after four years in congress and be multi-millionaires

1030
01:17:34,408 --> 01:17:41,488
that i just don't know how that can happen it's a coincidence it's a coincidence right exactly

1031
01:17:41,488 --> 01:17:50,088
be right and here's here's the thing that irritates me is people don't like what ice is doing

1032
01:17:50,088 --> 01:17:54,148
they're only enforcing the law change the law

1033
01:17:54,148 --> 01:18:01,108
it changed a lot and we once again we go back to the representatives not representing them

1034
01:18:01,108 --> 01:18:11,711
so the law doesn change because there no tolerance for it somewhere um but you know it is Somebody dying in custody is a tragedy

1035
01:18:12,771 --> 01:18:17,491
35,000 known children are being sexually trafficked around the world

1036
01:18:17,491 --> 01:18:23,871
and over 10,000 in this country alone is infuriating.

1037
01:18:24,331 --> 01:18:25,331
Well, it is.

1038
01:18:25,411 --> 01:18:26,531
Absolutely infuriating.

1039
01:18:26,951 --> 01:18:29,751
But where is the attention to that?

1040
01:18:29,751 --> 01:18:41,851
that's yeah i you know i yeah it's all it's all yeah i i don't know right i don't know why that

1041
01:18:41,851 --> 01:18:50,071
there isn't you know there's yeah i i i there's a lot going on there so let's let's shift this a

1042
01:18:50,071 --> 01:18:57,091
little bit what do you see what do you see as as the most positive things going on today what do

1043
01:18:57,091 --> 01:19:03,611
what do you see as being some of the things that give you like a positive outlook and view towards

1044
01:19:03,611 --> 01:19:10,451
the future? That's a really good question. And I've never gotten that one before. Um,

1045
01:19:10,771 --> 01:19:22,571
you know, a lot of the resistance to data centers is reflexive and, uh, ideologically driven,

1046
01:19:22,571 --> 01:19:28,311
but the fact that people are getting together organizing resistance

1047
01:19:28,311 --> 01:19:32,651
shows that we still have that spirit of 1776.

1048
01:19:33,491 --> 01:19:37,611
Whether we need to drink tea or we need to drink coffee,

1049
01:19:37,691 --> 01:19:41,091
at least somebody made a stand organized and did something about it

1050
01:19:41,091 --> 01:19:44,491
that didn't involve shooting people or blowing something up.

1051
01:19:46,011 --> 01:19:48,771
Now, later on the shooting came, but that's just the way that was.

1052
01:19:48,771 --> 01:19:51,871
So that is very heartening to me.

1053
01:19:52,571 --> 01:19:54,471
The whole flock camera thing.

1054
01:19:56,011 --> 01:19:58,671
I'm here to tell you that's actually kind of old technology.

1055
01:19:59,591 --> 01:19:59,891
Oh, yeah.

1056
01:20:00,231 --> 01:20:02,311
No, that technology is old.

1057
01:20:02,811 --> 01:20:03,971
The flock cameras are not.

1058
01:20:04,371 --> 01:20:08,091
The ability to manage the data is the new part.

1059
01:20:09,231 --> 01:20:15,831
But if people don't like it, get together,

1060
01:20:16,551 --> 01:20:18,691
figurative pitchforks, figurative torches,

1061
01:20:19,191 --> 01:20:20,711
and flood your city hall.

1062
01:20:20,711 --> 01:20:23,931
believe me they're going to look at it and go

1063
01:20:23,931 --> 01:20:26,291
I might not get elected next time

1064
01:20:26,291 --> 01:20:27,491
if I don't go along with them

1065
01:20:27,491 --> 01:20:30,511
and next thing you know they're going to swear they were with you the whole time

1066
01:20:30,511 --> 01:20:33,791
that is very heartening to me

1067
01:20:33,791 --> 01:20:35,951
people are realizing that the inherent power

1068
01:20:35,951 --> 01:20:37,151
is in the vote

1069
01:20:37,151 --> 01:20:40,791
and we have to protect the ability to get out there and vote

1070
01:20:40,791 --> 01:20:44,271
that and

1071
01:20:44,271 --> 01:20:47,711
I like the fact that a Trump arises

1072
01:20:47,711 --> 01:20:50,051
so nobody gets comfortable

1073
01:20:50,051 --> 01:21:09,531
I like that fact. We need to throw a disruptor in there. My personal opinion don't really matter. I wish that we were not a one party government right now with both houses of Congress and the White House all being controlled by one party.

1074
01:21:09,531 --> 01:21:15,411
because I like the dynamic of having both parties having to work,

1075
01:21:15,511 --> 01:21:18,891
being forced to work together to get anything done.

1076
01:21:20,691 --> 01:21:27,531
But, yeah, there's some – a lot of the people, the middle is the key.

1077
01:21:28,631 --> 01:21:30,271
You're going to have people on the right and the left

1078
01:21:30,271 --> 01:21:31,751
that are going to be out there and going to be screaming

1079
01:21:31,751 --> 01:21:34,611
that this thing should not happen and this thing is against God's will

1080
01:21:34,611 --> 01:21:35,311
and yada, yada, yada.

1081
01:21:35,311 --> 01:21:37,711
the middle

1082
01:21:37,711 --> 01:21:40,271
when you finally

1083
01:21:40,271 --> 01:21:43,431
upset them enough that they raise their head up

1084
01:21:43,431 --> 01:21:44,351
from the grindstone

1085
01:21:44,351 --> 01:21:47,251
and go, yeah, I don't think so.

1086
01:21:47,871 --> 01:21:49,371
That's when you can get stuff done.

1087
01:21:50,151 --> 01:21:51,211
And I'm seeing

1088
01:21:51,211 --> 01:21:53,471
some of that, whether it continues or not,

1089
01:21:53,511 --> 01:21:54,131
I don't know.

1090
01:21:55,231 --> 01:21:57,171
There's a lot of vested interest in here

1091
01:21:57,171 --> 01:21:58,071
in this country

1092
01:21:58,071 --> 01:22:01,431
for them not to be

1093
01:22:01,431 --> 01:22:03,431
able to, for the people

1094
01:22:03,431 --> 01:22:04,191
not to be able to

1095
01:22:04,191 --> 01:22:11,391
address or to stop some of the things that some of these groups are doing.

1096
01:22:12,091 --> 01:22:15,371
I have a friend of mine who is a gay activist, and I told him, I said,

1097
01:22:16,051 --> 01:22:21,971
this organization you belong to, their IRS filings are public record.

1098
01:22:23,051 --> 01:22:25,251
Just take a look and see how much money they're making,

1099
01:22:25,991 --> 01:22:28,471
how much money is paid to the staff.

1100
01:22:30,271 --> 01:22:32,351
With his, it was not a lot.

1101
01:22:32,351 --> 01:22:35,251
with some of them it's millions of dollars

1102
01:22:35,251 --> 01:22:37,611
they have a vested interest in keeping you outraged

1103
01:22:37,611 --> 01:22:39,711
so there's NGOs out there

1104
01:22:39,711 --> 01:22:41,711
there's civic organizations that

1105
01:22:41,711 --> 01:22:43,731
aren't enriching

1106
01:22:43,731 --> 01:22:45,671
themselves and doing it because it needs to be done

1107
01:22:45,671 --> 01:22:49,751
then there are others

1108
01:22:49,751 --> 01:22:51,791
out there whose vote is strictly

1109
01:22:51,791 --> 01:22:52,711
for sale and

1110
01:22:52,711 --> 01:22:55,371
it's all about the Benjamins

1111
01:22:55,371 --> 01:22:57,751
but I'm seeing

1112
01:22:57,751 --> 01:22:59,731
an awakening and I'm hoping that

1113
01:22:59,731 --> 01:23:01,071
that is going to continue

1114
01:23:01,071 --> 01:23:08,671
democracy is noisy and it's loud and it's the best option that we've got right now

1115
01:23:11,471 --> 01:23:15,951
sounds good so one question we like to ask all our guests

1116
01:23:15,951 --> 01:23:19,951
as we come to a close is you know throughout our lives there's a

1117
01:23:19,993 --> 01:23:24,033
an individual that made a profound impact, right?

1118
01:23:24,073 --> 01:23:25,953
It could be a sixth grade science teacher,

1119
01:23:26,153 --> 01:23:29,753
could be an author, historical figure, mom, whoever.

1120
01:23:30,433 --> 01:23:32,413
And we like to give our guests an opportunity

1121
01:23:32,413 --> 01:23:34,053
to shout out that person.

1122
01:23:38,513 --> 01:23:41,073
There were actually, there was one and a half.

1123
01:23:41,413 --> 01:23:42,613
There was, believe it or not.

1124
01:23:43,253 --> 01:23:44,613
The first one was my dad.

1125
01:23:44,613 --> 01:23:54,413
Uh, Bronstar veteran, uh, still struggle with PTSD to the day that he died.

1126
01:23:55,133 --> 01:24:03,153
Uh, but, uh, he did things sometimes that did not benefit him just cause they had to

1127
01:24:03,153 --> 01:24:05,613
be done or it was the right thing to do.

1128
01:24:06,453 --> 01:24:12,813
Uh, and he was always available, uh, not very emotionally reachable sometimes, but always

1129
01:24:12,813 --> 01:24:19,093
available, always teaching, and much of what I am is due to him.

1130
01:24:19,913 --> 01:24:25,913
And the other one is my old wrestling coach who came in and gave another aspect on how

1131
01:24:25,913 --> 01:24:41,151
a man acts which just broadened my definition a little bit My coach Richard Sandoval who by the way coach if you watching this from Union Missouri

1132
01:24:41,791 --> 01:24:46,371
I'm still here, and he is pushing his 80s now

1133
01:24:46,371 --> 01:24:49,191
and still as ornery as ever.

1134
01:24:49,531 --> 01:24:52,331
So those would be the two, Richard Sandoval and my dad,

1135
01:24:52,411 --> 01:24:53,311
Melvin Lloyd Hoppe.

1136
01:24:54,691 --> 01:24:55,891
Wonderful, wonderful.

1137
01:24:56,031 --> 01:24:56,231
Nice.

1138
01:24:56,951 --> 01:24:57,631
All right, well,

1139
01:24:57,631 --> 01:25:01,891
thank you so much for giving us some of your time.

1140
01:25:02,151 --> 01:25:03,491
We really appreciate it.

1141
01:25:03,531 --> 01:25:04,931
It's been a wonderful conversation.

1142
01:25:05,311 --> 01:25:07,531
I would be happy to have you back on.

1143
01:25:08,571 --> 01:25:11,311
And thank you for giving us some of your time.

1144
01:25:11,431 --> 01:25:12,391
You know where to find us.

1145
01:25:12,471 --> 01:25:13,331
We're everywhere.

1146
01:25:14,111 --> 01:25:17,351
Before we wrap up, where can people find you?

1147
01:25:17,431 --> 01:25:18,911
What do you got working on next?

1148
01:25:19,211 --> 01:25:23,671
And is there a better place to purchase your book from,

1149
01:25:23,671 --> 01:25:25,211
or is it just kind of open?

1150
01:25:25,211 --> 01:25:28,631
I've got a website

1151
01:25:28,631 --> 01:25:30,671
wordsbyrick.com

1152
01:25:30,671 --> 01:25:32,731
and it has

1153
01:25:32,731 --> 01:25:34,551
what I'm working on and

1154
01:25:34,551 --> 01:25:36,671
once the book is actually

1155
01:25:36,671 --> 01:25:38,671
released I'll have signed copies available

1156
01:25:38,671 --> 01:25:40,251
that you can purchase from the website

1157
01:25:40,251 --> 01:25:42,591
but again I'm keeping

1158
01:25:42,591 --> 01:25:44,711
in mind I'm Ricky Hoppe from Billeridge, Missouri

1159
01:25:44,711 --> 01:26:02,288
so you may not need a signature but you can find the book on any of the major book platforms and Amazon Barnes and Noble Books a Million you name it They all out there Currently I working on a historical novel based in the late 17th century

1160
01:26:03,108 --> 01:26:10,228
That's got a spiritual, philosophical, religious aspect to it.

1161
01:26:10,228 --> 01:26:21,988
And I'm working on a novel about what a civilian learns from a veteran when they work together over the years.

1162
01:26:23,068 --> 01:26:32,828
And then my cousin and I are working on a novel, a novella that I wrote, and trying to turn it into a movie.

1163
01:26:32,828 --> 01:26:40,908
without a budget, it's going to be all AI, but I, the story is a, I love the story.

1164
01:26:42,388 --> 01:26:52,148
So that's, I do a, I have a sub stack, which is Buster Says, or just search for my name

1165
01:26:52,148 --> 01:26:57,768
for a copy where I write essays and everything from the state of religion in the United States

1166
01:26:57,768 --> 01:27:09,225
to what going on in Iran to we just aren going to learn It runs the gamut I a man full of many things like I said before and some of them are opinions

1167
01:27:12,485 --> 01:27:15,645
And yeah, so hit my website.

1168
01:27:15,805 --> 01:27:17,145
There's a contact form on there.

1169
01:27:17,245 --> 01:27:18,345
I like hearing from people.

1170
01:27:19,365 --> 01:27:20,485
I like discussion.

1171
01:27:20,625 --> 01:27:21,725
I like being challenged.

1172
01:27:22,565 --> 01:27:25,085
There's nothing worse than assuming I'm right

1173
01:27:25,085 --> 01:27:28,585
and then walking smack head on when it's important

1174
01:27:28,585 --> 01:27:31,325
to finding out that, nope, I was wrong.

1175
01:27:32,085 --> 01:27:33,545
So I like being challenged.

1176
01:27:34,105 --> 01:27:36,585
And gentlemen, I have had a wonderful time.

1177
01:27:36,685 --> 01:27:37,565
This has been a blast.

1178
01:27:38,945 --> 01:27:40,025
Awesome, awesome.

1179
01:27:40,545 --> 01:27:42,685
All right, everybody, you know where you can find us.

1180
01:27:42,885 --> 01:27:44,125
Leave a like if you liked us.

1181
01:27:44,165 --> 01:27:47,025
If you didn't, leave thumbs down, drop a comment, tell us we suck.

1182
01:27:47,185 --> 01:27:47,805
We'll respond.

1183
01:27:48,945 --> 01:27:54,185
And remember, wherever you are, whenever you're watching this,

1184
01:27:54,845 --> 01:27:56,065
have an amazing day.

1185
01:27:57,205 --> 01:27:58,145
Thanks for stopping by, Rick.

1186
01:27:58,145 --> 01:27:58,805
See you, everybody.